WesWorld

Almost forgot to post this. The ex-Chosenian, ex-Japanese armoured cruiser Nisshin, now PRS Bugsuk, will be rebuilt starting 1 April 1928, to the following configuration.

PRS Bugsuk, ex-Japanese Nisshin, armoured cruiser, laid down 1902 (Engine 192

Displacement:
6,833 t light; 7,304 t standard; 8,545 t normal; 9,538 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
362.57 ft / 357.00 ft x 62.00 ft x 23.50 ft (normal load)
110.51 m / 108.81 m x 18.90 m x 7.16 m

Armament:
4 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (2x2 guns), 300.00lbs / 136.08kg shells, 1928 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
14 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns in single mounts, 120.00lbs / 54.43kg shells, 1928 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
10 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1928 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

Weight of broadside 3,231 lbs / 1,465 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes (provision for 24")

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 261.00 ft / 79.55 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 4.50" / 114 mm 96.00 ft / 29.26 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 261.00 ft / 79.55 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.10" / 155 mm 4.72" / 120 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
5th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 4.75" / 121 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 19,160 shp / 14,293 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,234 tons)

Complement:
34 officers and 473 men

Cost:
£0.643 million / $2.573 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 382 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 2,756 tons, 32.3 %
- Belts: 1,280 tons, 15.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 556 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 878 tons, 10.3 %
- Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 597 tons, 7.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,048 tons, 35.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,713 tons, 20.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,279 lbs / 6,477 Kg = 50.5 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.575
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.76 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.80 ft / 6.34 m
- Forecastle (14 %): 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Quarterdeck (14 %): 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Stern: 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Average freeboard: 17.78 ft / 5.42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.2 %
Waterplane Area: 15,814 Square feet or 1,469 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 601 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 3.49
- Overall: 1.16
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


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Original data for comparision:

PRS Bugsuk, ex-Japanese Nisshin, armoured cruiser, laid down 1902

Displacement:
7,381 t light; 7,799 t standard; 8,471 t normal; 9,009 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
357.00 ft / 357.00 ft x 62.00 ft x 23.50 ft (normal load)
108.81 m / 108.81 m x 18.90 m x 7.16 m

Armament:
4 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
10 - 2.91" / 74.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1902 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1914 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1914 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread

Weight of broadside 2,679 lbs / 1,215 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 261.00 ft / 79.55 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 4.50" / 114 mm 96.00 ft / 29.26 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 261.00 ft / 79.55 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 4.75" / 121 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,000 ihp / 10,444 Kw = 19.47 kts
Range 5,600nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,210 tons)

Complement:
34 officers and 473 men

Cost:
£0.837 million / $3.347 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 335 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 2,295 tons, 27.1 %
- Belts: 1,279 tons, 15.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 536 tons, 6.3 %
- Armour Deck: 437 tons, 5.2 %
- Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,121 tons, 25.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,629 tons, 31.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,090 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,141 lbs / 3,239 Kg = 27.9 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.76 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Stern: 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
- Average freeboard: 17.60 ft / 5.36 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.0 %
Waterplane Area: 15,740 Square feet or 1,462 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 521 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.82
- Overall: 1.04
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

More power to you...but I'd have her cut up for scrap.

Swampy, you forgot ex-Italian. She is a Garibaldi class armoured cruiser. They really are too old and slow to be of any use. I'm sure they just serve to drain valuable manpower more than anything else.

You should realize by now that he loves to [ding-dong] materials and manpower.
:-)

Nostalgia. Besides it will probably take less time to get this ship in the fleet then build a newer ship that will cost him tonnage and materials.

This vessel is slow enough to qualify as a coastal defense ship. And I think the Japanese held on to this ship historically as such and then a training ship of some kind...at least for a little while.

Quoted

Nostalgia.

The same reason why I dragged the Mikasa out of oblivion.
:-)

Quoted

Swampy, you forgot ex-Italian. She is a Garibaldi class armoured cruiser.

Interesting, I didn't know that.

Quoted

You should realize by now that he loves to waste materials and manpower. :-)

Waste? Waste?! Nobody says I waste things!
*omminous hummmmm*

;-)

Quoted

it will probably take less time to get this ship in the fleet then build a newer ship that will cost him tonnage and materials.

This vessel is slow enough to qualify as a coastal defense ship.

Bingo. I currently have a shortage of cruisers, especially heavy cruisers. This allows me to have/keep more guns in the fleet now, and when newer ships complete in a few years she can be put in reserve for emergencies.

Quoted

This allows me to have/keep more guns in the fleet now, and when newer ships complete in a few years she can be put in reserve for emergencies.

Which is the same reason I have Babur still in service. But I'm not spending the resources to rebuild her.

Hey, you buying those 21 cm guns from me? Or have you got a domestic version in production?

Quoted

Which is the same reason I have Babur still in service. But I'm not spending the resources to rebuild her.

True, but since Bugsuk was last refit just before the war, to keep her in service without penalty it's time for a rebuild.

Quoted

Hey, you buying those 21 cm guns from me? Or have you got a domestic version in production?

I posted something along the latter lines a few Q's ago...they're the first product of the new Skoda-Davao factory. :-) Test firings will make the Q4/27 news.*


(* - I actually originally intended these to be Model 1930 guns, and they're listed as such in the Encyclopedia, but then I remembered this rebuild...)

Quoted

Swampy, you forgot ex-Italian. She is a Garibaldi class armoured cruiser.


Interesting, I didn't know that.

Yes, she and her sister where both built for sale to Argentina, but were instead sold to Japan.

Speaking of which...I wonder if the Argentinian Garibaldi's are still in service? Could give you another foreign contract in the New World.

Quoted

Waste? Waste?! Nobody says I waste things!

Waste? Did I say waste? I don't remember using the word "waste".
XD

...the Garibaldi -class Armoured Cruisers have interchangable turret types....(or are they build one way and can't be swapped?)....twin 8 inch or single 10 inch guns.

I think they are interchangable. Some ships had 1x254 and 2x203 guns.

Ok, can we recap this ships history abit? She seems to have been around the block a few times. Whos tonnage alotment is she under via the CT?

Quoted

Ok, can we recap this ships history abit? She seems to have been around the block a few times. Whos tonnage alotment is she under via the CT?

Laid down in Italy for Argentina
Purchased by Japan before completion, at start of Russo-Japanese War
refit just before World War One
*transferred to Chosen after WW1
sold to Philippines in 1926
to be rebuilt in 1928

[SIZE=1]* - everything before this is OTL-historical[/SIZE]

She counts against Filipino tonnage limits.


Her sister-ship (Kasuga?) mounts 1x10"+2x8". I'll have to run the sim again to see if B can be "swapped" post-rebuild. :-)

Found her in Janes, an interesting but not overly fearsome ship. I wonder though why on earth Chosen would sell such a ship. If its for a new ship, it dosn't make sence for the Philippines to trade a new ship for an old one, nevermind the insignificant caliber change by a few milimeters.

Quoted

Speaking of which...I wonder if the Argentinian Garibaldi's are still in service? Could give you another foreign contract in the New World.

One of the Argentinian Garibaldis(General Pueyrredón, IIRC) served in the real world at least until 1951 as a training ship.

Quoted

I wonder though why on earth Chosen would sell such a ship. If its for a new ship, it dosn't make sence for the Philippines to trade a new ship for an old one, nevermind the insignificant caliber change by a few milimeters.

You didn't see the news items back when the transaction was done? They sold it for 0.2 IP, which was considerably more than they would have gotten had they scrapped it. As for why, you'd have to ask Walter, but it probably had something to do with new ships being built in Japan...

Quoted

One of the Argentinian Garibaldis(General Pueyrredón, IIRC) served in the real world at least until 1951 as a training ship.

...and Bugsuk will probably remain in service in one form or another just as long or longer*. "Waste not, want not" is my motto. :-)

(* - 30 years service life after the rebuild = 1958. O_O )

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen

Quoted

I wonder though why on earth Chosen would sell such a ship. If its for a new ship, it dosn't make sence for the Philippines to trade a new ship for an old one, nevermind the insignificant caliber change by a few milimeters.

You didn't see the news items back when the transaction was done? They sold it for 0.2 IP, which was considerably more than they would have gotten had they scrapped it. As for why, you'd have to ask Walter, but it probably had something to do with new ships being built in Japan...

Now that you mention it, I do remember, however I never did understand just why any country would buy and old ship for an outragious price.....