WesWorld

Quoted

According to that list 25ts is pretty realistic for one plane.

That is a plane that is almost as heavy as an A-6 Intruder's maximum take-off weight (= 27 tons)!!

I know what you mean, but one can read that bit slightly different.
:-)

BTW how would you break up the 25 tons assigned to the cat/crane? I doubt that you would need 50 tons for one crane and two catapults.

Quoted

Sometime ago I run several calculations with Bernhard on this issue. Results: Everything above 30mm is a waste if you want splinter/light gun protection only. Everything below 80mm is a waste if you want resonable protection against 150mm shells at medium or long ranges.

The British 6"/50 gun firing a 112lb shell will penetrate about 2.8" of armour at 10.000yds. There is no effective penetration above 16.0000yds.

Have you considered that a CT is made of round plates in general? The angle of impact will vary to a high degree from an impact against a standard plate. Like barbets an armored CT is a difficult nut to crack if your shell has not a great reserve of penetrating power compared to the plate thickness at a given range.

However, because of the highly delicate "interior" of a CT even a partial penetration or a cracking of a plate which allows splinters to get loose from the inside of the CT armor will cause havoc. Therefore plate thickness has to be calculated in such a manner that a plate will dent only (at envisioned ranges).

For my calculations back then I used the German 150mm gun and shells as used on the K- and following classes of light cruisers. After discussing things with B. be came to the conclusion that 80mm is some kind of minimum against such a weapon to really protect your skipper.

That being said, depending on the situation and the gun faced 70mm might be enough but would you bet on it? :o)

Ok,I worked on a version with a catapult. In fact in two of them...I'll put them both so you people can tell me which one you like the most

Dutch Light cruiser laid down 1927




Displacement:
8.058 t light; 8.342 t standard; 9.568 t normal; 10.549 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
592,61 ft / 587,27 ft x 57,41 ft x 20,34 ft (normal load)
180,63 m / 179,00 m x 17,50 m x 6,20 m

Armament:
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110,23lbs / 50,00kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1924 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.082 lbs / 491 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145
12 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,45" / 113 mm 413,25 ft / 125,96 m 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4,92" / 125 mm 1,77" / 45 mm 2,76" / 70 mm
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 3,35" / 85 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 90.297 shp / 67.362 Kw = 34,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.207 tons

Complement:
483 - 628

Cost:
£2,883 million / $11,533 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 133 tons, 1,4 %
Armour: 1.430 tons, 14,9 %
- Belts: 693 tons, 7,2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 234 tons, 2,4 %
- Armour Deck: 471 tons, 4,9 %
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 2.850 tons, 29,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.595 tons, 37,6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.510 tons, 15,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9.816 lbs / 4.452 Kg = 90,9 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 2,6 ft / 0,8 m
Roll period: 15,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,488
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27,64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
Stern overhang: -2,46 ft / -0,75 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25,10 ft / 7,65 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Mid (68 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Quarterdeck (19 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Stern: 19,36 ft / 5,90 m
- Average freeboard: 19,55 ft / 5,96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108,2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117,9 %
Waterplane Area: 23.110 Square feet or 2.147 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 472 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,36
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

And here is the second one (hooman, there you go the hull break you like so much )


This one came to my mind because hooman's reference to HMS Hood. I stared at the pic and realized that 180m is quite large for a CL, so I went some different ways to make the ship's dimensions smaller. I simply don't like being a large target so I guessed the same would be true for warships .

[edit] I think this is more along the lines of the ship I'll build, so I've updated it with better light AAA and somewhat increased armor...pic updated below)[/edit]




Enter ship name, Dutch Light cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
8.069 t light; 8.354 t standard; 9.577 t normal; 10.555 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
560,56 ft / 554,46 ft x 53,31 ft x 20,51 ft (normal load)
170,86 m / 169,00 m x 16,25 m x 6,25 m

Armament:
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110,23lbs / 50,00kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1924 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
16 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.100 lbs / 499 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145
12 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,69" / 119 mm 410,76 ft / 125,20 m 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4,92" / 125 mm 1,77" / 45 mm 2,95" / 75 mm
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 3,35" / 85 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 95.639 shp / 71.346 Kw = 34,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.201 tons

Complement:
483 - 629

Cost:
£2,977 million / $11,908 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 135 tons, 1,4 %
Armour: 1.445 tons, 15,1 %
- Belts: 721 tons, 7,5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 252 tons, 2,6 %
- Armour Deck: 439 tons, 4,6 %
- Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 3.019 tons, 31,5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.420 tons, 35,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.509 tons, 15,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8.437 lbs / 3.827 Kg = 78,1 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 15,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,553
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,40 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
Stern overhang: -2,46 ft / -0,75 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28,71 ft / 8,75 m
- Forecastle (24 %): 23,79 ft / 7,25 m
- Mid (48 %): 23,79 ft / 7,25 m (16,40 ft / 5,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (17 %): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Stern: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Average freeboard: 20,42 ft / 6,22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104,6 %
Waterplane Area: 21.540 Square feet or 2.001 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 449 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,71
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

I like option 2.

Dito.

Her hangar is probably a little bit low but otherwise a decent design.