WesWorld

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Cool. So I can knock out 20 t for torpedoes and assume she's three knots faster, or I can leave the weight in and assume she's 35.33 knots...

Well, I need to qualify my statement. I've presumed that most light combatants can, when needed, exceed their stated Springsharp speed by 2-4 knots on, for lack of a better word, "war emergency power". For instance, when the Samuel B. Roberts, ostensibly rated for 24 knots, made over 28 knots at Samar. In other words, it's more an assumption for SHTF situations than an assumption for regular operation.

Quoted

I tend to agree with Brock, why have tubes without torps?

Cause a torpedo tube is not the same as a torpedo? To me, a torpedo tube is like a gun with the rounds per gun set to 0 and, unlike the guns, the tubes and launchers you have on the ships don't have any weight either while in reality they're not something you can pick up because they have no weight.

Quoted

we can't sim historical DD's at their historical speeds without serious stability issues.

Oh? I always have seaboat issues when simming my DDs. I always have plenty of stability to help correct my seaboat issues.

Quoted

but it just looked funky

Yes, it does.

Quoted

I don't remember why it looked funky or even what the formula was, I just remember I thought it wasn't right

True, but it was an attempt to get the speed of torpedo boats and destroyers closer to the speeds of OTL. It may not have been the right way to do it, but to me it is less vague than 2-4 knots. After all, when are you going to assume it is 2 knots faster, when are you going to assume it is 4 knots faster and when are you going to assume it is somewhere in between? You make a guess or do you make use of some sort of guideline?

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
True, but it was an attempt to get the speed of torpedo boats and destroyers closer to the speeds of OTL. It may not have been the right way to do it, but to me it is less vague than 2-4 knots. After all, when are you going to assume it is 2 knots faster, when are you going to assume it is 4 knots faster and when are you going to assume it is somewhere in between? You make a guess or do you make use of some sort of guideline?

For me, it would only matter in the context of a storyline - occasions where fluff is used and expected, and where variables can affect the results. For instance:
- What condition is the ship in? Is it fresh from the yard, or with a hull draggy from barnacles and weed? Are the engines in good shape?
- What's the sea state? Can the ship make her full speed in the water conditions?
- What's the temperature? Higher and lower temperatures *will* affect the performance of the engine, and could make a difference.

My 2 cents

A) Personally I wouldn't mind if "poor seakeeping at max speed" was made standard expectations for the max speed of DDs.

But bear in mind that in moderate or worse seastates, DDs don't keep up. That would be the driver to have 1.0 + seakeeping on one's DDs. Certainly in past designs, I've pushed for 34-35 knots when, if a "speed boost" was present, I may have built a 32-33knot DD.

B) Deciding one's DDs are faster should not be up to individual players. I can see some gentlemans rules
B.1.) Declare DDs can generate up to X% extra HP in extremis. Up to players to record maximum speed and associated seakeeping at that speed.

B.2.) I could see adopting the Navalism formula here. However it should be tied to an engine date and declared the result of be better metallurgy allowing higher steam pressures or something.

C) Misc weight represents stuff above decks, roughly where the torpedoes are. Not requiring weight for them means people get free weapons. Why Torpedoes should be weightless, but 40mm AA not escapes me. As for reloads, not all OTL DDs even had reloads, I'm of the impression most didn't. So I would have been in favor of including the torp weight.

D) I know that coming up with weight for Torps played havoc with some SS2 subdesigns, I eventually took Roo's route of putting the weight in the belt armor instead.

D.1) D might be irrelevant now, I admit some confusion- I thought it was mandated we use SS2 for ships, and now the Excell Spreadsheet for subs... but I noted Hood recently posted some 1942 SS2 subs. Meantime I've just been continuing to build 0-8 class subs

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
D.1) D might be irrelevant now, I admit some confusion- I thought it was mandated we use SS2 for ships, and now the Excell Spreadsheet for subs... but I noted Hood recently posted some 1942 SS2 subs. Meantime I've just been continuing to build 0-8 class subs

Subsim has never been officially adopted by the board. The official rule is still simming to the sub-specific SS2 rules found in the rules board.

The Fletcher class DD sim Rick Robinson included with the original Springstyle sim had torpedos and zero misc weight.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
D.1) D might be irrelevant now, I admit some confusion- I thought it was mandated we use SS2 for ships, and now the Excell Spreadsheet for subs... but I noted Hood recently posted some 1942 SS2 subs. Meantime I've just been continuing to build 0-8 class subs

Subsim has never been officially adopted by the board. The official rule is still simming to the sub-specific SS2 rules found in the rules board.

Not exactly. We voted to officially adopt Subsim as an optional alternative to SS2.

Quoted

Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov
The Fletcher class DD sim Rick Robinson included with the original Springstyle sim had torpedos and zero misc weight.

Fletchers had sonar as built, DCs, DC throwers, etc, also not accounted for.

Meanwhile the SoDak sim has only 54 tons... for what- the 2x AC + Cat? The various radar sets which got shot up at 2nd Guadalcanal? The admirals quarters which were the reason for two less twin 5" ?

Meanwhile QE went from no aircraft to aircraft between the wars and has no misc weight for either.

We've made the choice to set aside misc weight for all sorts of fairly standard ship items, but I'm not sold it was intended for that. Only the admiral quarters seems to get weight.

So it goes back to what we decided. Apparently that the first set of torpedoes and launchers are remarkably light, but the second set weighs tons.

I suppose I could tweak back the horsepower and miscellaneous weight, and up the freeboard a bit, and then I'd get this:

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
1,871 t light; 1,991 t standard; 2,237 t normal; 2,433 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
393.86 ft / 386.65 ft x 36.09 ft x 12.47 ft (normal load)
120.05 m / 117.85 m x 11.00 m x 3.80 m

Armament:
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (3x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 331 lbs / 150 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400
10 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 34.99 kts
Range 5,500nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 442 tons)

Complement:
162 - 211

Cost:
£1.590 million / $6.361 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 41 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 23 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,069 tons, 47.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 615 tons, 27.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 366 tons, 16.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 122 tons, 5.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
577 lbs / 262 Kg = 10.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.81

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m (10.50 ft / 3.20 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Stern: 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.75 ft / 4.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.9 %
Waterplane Area: 9,246 Square feet or 859 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 178 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Quoted

Not exactly. We voted to officially adopt Subsim as an optional alternative to SS2.

Actually Shin's right. Yes, you voted for it, but from what I can see in that thread, those proceedings have never been completed so SS2 is still the standard for submarines and Subsim has not been officially accepted as an optional alternative.

Quoted

34.99 kts

Almost, but not quite 35 knots.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

Not exactly. We voted to officially adopt Subsim as an optional alternative to SS2.

Actually Shin's right. Yes, you voted for it, but from what I can see in that thread, those proceedings have never been completed so SS2 is still the standard for submarines and Subsim has not been officially accepted as an optional alternative.

Fine. We can fix that in five minutes.

There, fixed. All official now, Walter.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
I suppose I could tweak back the horsepower and miscellaneous weight, and up the freeboard a bit, and then I'd get this:

You're still doing ships? I thought we had hijacked this thread ! Looks reasonable overall. Had some misgivings on beam until I compared to some OTL twin 4.7" ships.

Dragging this thread back onto topic...

Peru's minesweeping force is not really considered adequate for the overall length of coastline involved. A new run of coastal vessels will bring numbers up to a more reasonable level.

The type is fitted with a reasonable AA battery and limited ASW equipment, allowing it to be employed as a coastal escort if circumstances require this.

Edit: I see this is a SS3 design, so I'll hunt down and repost the SS2 version when I can.

A-3 class minesweeper, laid down 1941

Displacement:
396 t light; 417 t standard; 515 t normal; 594 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
167.67 ft / 161.09 ft x 26.25 ft x 8.20 ft (normal load)
51.11 m / 49.10 m x 8.00 m x 2.50 m

Armament:
2 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
Weight of broadside 76 lbs / 34 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,000 shp / 2,238 Kw = 18.81 kts
Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 176 tons)

Complement:
53 - 70

Cost:
£0.203 million / $0.814 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 5 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 5 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 79 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 218 tons, 42.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 119 tons, 23.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 16.3 %
-50 t: Boom for minesweeping/salvage/target-towing
-14 t: Weight reserve
-10 t: Depth charges and throwers
-10 t: ASDIC

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
921 lbs / 418 Kg = 26.1 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.520
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.69 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m (7.87 ft / 2.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Stern: 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 12.05 ft / 3.67 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.7 %
Waterplane Area: 2,869 Square feet or 267 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 159 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 188 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.79
- Longitudinal: 8.06
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Mine Layer/sweeper (Coastal) laid down 1942

Displacement:
397 t light; 415 t standard; 442 t normal; 464 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
182,76 ft / 180,45 ft x 32,81 ft x 5,41 ft (normal load)
55,71 m / 55,00 m x 10,00 m x 1,65 m

Armament:
1 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1942 Model
Quick firing gun in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 63 lbs / 29 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2.186 shp / 1.630 Kw = 18,00 kts
Range 3.500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 49 tons

Complement:
47 - 62

Cost:
£0,182 million / $0,727 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 8 tons, 1,8 %
Machinery: 57 tons, 12,9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 202 tons, 45,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 45 tons, 10,2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 29,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
954 lbs / 433 Kg = 16,0 x 4,9 " / 125 mm shells or 0,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
Metacentric height 1,4 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 11,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 44 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,06
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,90

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,483
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13,43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10,30 ft / 3,14 m
- Mid (50 %): 10,30 ft / 3,14 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10,30 ft / 3,14 m
- Stern: 10,30 ft / 3,14 m
- Average freeboard: 10,53 ft / 3,21 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155,4 %
Waterplane Area: 3.723 Square feet or 346 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 144 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 183 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 2,99
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

W/L 10t
Mines 100 t
Sweeping Gear 10t
Reserve:Radar?? 10 t

That alternative's in SS3 as well - SS2 is standard here.

Anyway, I prefer my hull form - you've got iffy seakeeping there.

Yes Yes My mistake ,trim 33!!!!!!!!!,new version at trim 50:
, Mine Layer/sweeper (Coastal) laid down 1942

Displacement:
397 t light; 415 t standard; 442 t normal; 464 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
182,76 ft / 180,45 ft x 32,81 ft x 5,41 ft (normal load)
55,71 m / 55,00 m x 10,00 m x 1,65 m

Armament:
1 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1942 Model
Quick firing gun in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 63 lbs / 29 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2.186 shp / 1.630 Kw = 18,00 kts
Range 3.500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 49 tons

Complement:
47 - 62

Cost:
£0,182 million / $0,727 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 8 tons, 1,8 %
Machinery: 57 tons, 12,9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 202 tons, 45,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 45 tons, 10,2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 29,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
933 lbs / 423 Kg = 15,7 x 4,9 " / 125 mm shells or 0,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
Metacentric height 1,3 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 12,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,483
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13,43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10,30 ft / 3,14 m
- Mid (50 %): 10,30 ft / 3,14 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10,30 ft / 3,14 m
- Stern: 10,30 ft / 3,14 m
- Average freeboard: 10,53 ft / 3,21 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155,4 %
Waterplane Area: 3.723 Square feet or 346 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 144 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 183 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 2,99
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

W/L 10t
Mines 100 t
Sweeping Gear 10t
Reserve:Radar?? 10

P.S.Is SS2

Actually, it turns out that my design is SS2. Evidently, I've forgotten what the output looks like.

Anyway, here's the 100 t sub chaser Peru's building. Nothing special, but it'll do for coastal escort/patrol work:

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
100 t light; 107 t standard; 113 t normal; 117 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
100.51 ft / 98.43 ft x 16.08 ft (Bulges 16.31 ft) x 4.92 ft (normal load)
30.63 m / 30.00 m x 4.90 m (Bulges 4.97 m) x 1.50 m

Armament:
1 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
1 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline aft
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 36 lbs / 16 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,000 shp / 746 Kw = 17.06 kts
Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 10 tons)

Complement:
16 - 22

Cost:
£0.070 million / $0.278 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 2 tons, 1.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 1.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 26 tons, 23.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 53 tons, 47.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 14 tons, 12.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
123 lbs / 56 Kg = 3.5 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.04 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 9.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Stern: 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 8.19 ft / 2.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.8 %
Waterplane Area: 1,054 Square feet or 98 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 113 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.76
- Longitudinal: 12.54
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

It turns out that Lake Titicaca is not the disarmed high-altitude body of water that you might think it is.

The Bolivians have, in fact, put two small submarines into service there.

While Peru is not exactly chomping at the bit to start a local shipbuilding contest on the lake, it does seem prudent to develop a modest patrol capability there, in order to protect fishing boats, etc.

These vessels are being fabricated on the coast, then their parts are being shipped to the lake via flying boat for re-assembly.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
98 t light; 102 t standard; 104 t normal; 106 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
116.35 ft / 112.86 ft x 16.40 ft x 3.28 ft (normal load)
35.46 m / 34.40 m x 5.00 m x 1.00 m

Armament:
1 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
on centreline aft
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 23 lbs / 10 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 297 shp / 222 Kw = 13.01 kts
Range 500nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 4 tons)

Complement:
16 - 21

Cost:
£0.044 million / $0.178 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 2 tons, 2.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 2 tons, 1.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 8 tons, 7.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 47 tons, 45.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6 tons, 5.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 38 tons, 36.5 %
-10 t: ASDIC
-10 t: Depth charges and throwers
-18 t: Weight reserve/deck cargo/short-term troop embarkment

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
220 lbs / 100 Kg = 10.6 x 3.5 " / 88 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 10.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 10.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 32
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Stern: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 6.88 ft / 2.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.8 %
Waterplane Area: 1,354 Square feet or 126 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 102 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 4.16
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

I must admit, I'm curious why you put together two designs for that; I'd think one design could accomplish both goals.