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Originally posted by Rooijen10
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Launched in July 1953 or thereabouts, done with trials early in 1954. Quite an act of faith...
Well, the launch should still be in the 1940s I think... and yes, this design shows my opinion as to what to do when we get to 1950.
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Go home, Japan. You're drunk.
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You could use 21" guns instead... you know you have them available.
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I stand corrected; completed in July 1953. Just in time to make a last stand at Dien Bien Phu.
This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Sep 29th 2013, 11:13pm)
diesel-electric propulsion, should the 'ElecHP' not be that what determines the maximum surface speed?
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- 560 tons for stronger pressure hull (+30mm), allowing the submarine to dive deeper.
- 145 tons for highly streamlined form of pressure hull and casing.
True. I was thinking about that as well. Even if the running time is quite limited due to the capacity of the batteries, a sub like this would run faster on the surface using the batteries than it would running on diesel power. It is not something you want to do though, but it seems to me to be proper to indicate with the max surface speed that the sub is capable of running at speeds in excess of what Subsim gives for short periods of time (for the I-310, I estimate 8-10 minutes at 18.9 knots based on what Subsim gives me).Quoted
You can use the batteries on the surface, but in 98% of all circumstances you'll be using the diesels on the surface.
Considering that you do not indicate exactly what aspect you are not convinced in, I doubt anyone would be able to do that.Quoted
...I am not convinced about these two items. Can you make a case?
Okay, I did not know that. I thought that a feature like that would have to be added to the miscellaneous weights in order to justify its existence on the submarine which I did, but if it is already assumed by Subsim to be part of the sim, then adding the same streamlining would actually do nothing.Quoted
I think Subsim automatically accounts for better engine hp/ton and increased streamlining when you enter the year the design is laid down, hence the huge rise in underwater speed and range moving from a 1940 to a 1945 design. To then use miscellaneous weight to claim that you're adding that same streamlining... strikes me as a bit shady.
I got the impression with messing around with Subsim, the sub's Crush depth does not change if you add or remove stuff from your sub, unlike with SS where the depths are determined by the overall hull strength which constantly changes when you add or remove stuff from your sub. While I haven't really looked into it, I also got the impression that the bigger the sub you sim with Subsim, the deeper it can dive. (I think I will have to play some more with it to see what it all does) edit: no it doesn't... greater sub =/= deeper diving depth.Quoted
Similarly, I'm looking at the "improved" crush depths and I think they're unnaturally high, particularly for this era. (I feel the numbers offered by Subsim were already unrealistically generous.) For comparison, most WWII submarines (Balao and Tench as an example) had test depths of 120m or thereabouts, and are specifically called out as having particularly high-strength hulls in order to dive deep. Yet here's a design with twice that diving depth.
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Operational Depth: This was the maximum depth which could be used safely in operations. It included margins for error in the design calculation or in building and for an inadvertent overshoot in manoeuvring etc.
Test Depth: A new submarine would carry out a test dive, usually to operational depth. Many captains would go 10 per cent deeper to give confidence to their crew [Footnote: Since this habit was well known the 10 per cent was added to the factor of safety in setting operational depth]
Collapse Depth: The depth calculated by the designer at which the pressure hull would collapse under water pressure. It seems that by about 1930 it was British practice (and that of most navies) to take the operational depth as half the collapse depth. Note that in Oberon 'diving depth' was quoted as 500ft, operational depth as 300ft and test depth as 200ft. It is probable that 500ft was the expected collapse depth.
Okay, so using those two, you have depth:beam ratios of 0.763 for the Oscar I, 0.789 for the Oscar II and 0.744 for the Typhoon... and which are nowhere near the 0.667 (depth about 2/3 of beam) that the SS notes claims to be "typical for subs of pre-nuke era" eventhough the two are nuclear era subs. This made me think because when I am thinking of the pre-nuclear era subs, I'm thinking of vessels whose beam and depth create something that looks more round than the Oskar or the Typhoon thus even further removed from the 0.667 ratio than those two nuclear subs. It is something I noted when I was simming the I-300. Using the I-201 wiki data, the beam is about 6 meters and wiki is kind enough to give me the proper value to enter for depth which is 7 meters. That gives me a depth:beam ratio of 1.167.Quoted
The Typhoon is that fat and flat because it's an outer hull wrapped around two cylindrical pressure hulls (with a third under the sail). The Oscars have pretty squared off hulls, but that's because of the side-saddle missile tubes. I can't think of any other subs that remotely approach that form-factor.
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