WesWorld

Probably a wise choice. Otherwise you're going to argue and heckle about the terms until the treaty ends, especially considering the players.

India wins... and Australia has lost all faith in GB. Abandoning a close ally for a backstabbing, backwater country?

Quoted

This means Australia and Canada can do whatever they wish without restriction.

We were never restricted in the first place... Time to dig up those Habbakkuk plans.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
India wins... and Australia has lost all faith in GB. Abandoning a close ally for a backstabbing, backwater country?

Britain extended Australia the courtesy of the Australian limits, and India was willing to go with that... but Australia was too ambitious, overplayed their hand, and lost the game. India is still limited, just not as limited as you had the chance to make it.

I'm not up on what the 35% Limit will permit India. Any help? Is it by numbers of hulls, or by tonnage?

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
India wins... and Australia has lost all faith in GB. Abandoning a close ally for a backstabbing, backwater country?

Britain extended Australia the courtesy of the Australian limits, and India was willing to go with that... but Australia was too ambitious, overplayed their hand, and lost the game. India is still limited, just not as limited as you had the chance to make it.

I'm not up on what the 35% Limit will permit India. Any help? Is it by numbers of hulls, or by tonnage?

I was going with number of hulls. Easier to keep track off. Got a bump in capitol ships and cruisers but submarines took a big hit. As it stands I can only built ONE more sub.

If by numbers, and using the last UK report, is this about right?

Quoted

BB: 6
BC: 1
CA: 4
CL: 31
DD: 67
SS-A: 6
SS-B: 23

Ambitious?

Quoted

[From India]

I'm counting the 9.2" ships as capital ships... I can see we will retain parity in hulls in regard to capital ships (your seven ships [Cats and Bismarks]mentioned) and my current three battleships and the four planned armored cruisers.

I just wanted that agreement kept. That said time to start building submarines and carriers like crazy...

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
If by numbers, and using the last UK report, is this about right?

Quoted

BB: 6
BC: 1
CA: 4
CL: 31
DD: 67
SS-A: 6
SS-B: 23

Close I was rounding fractions up on my numbers but is very close. I think I got eight capital ships, 37 total cruisers 68 destroyers and 30 submarines.

Interesting that despite the relaxed limits the Indians are still planning to bust the treaty with 11 Capital Ships built or planned...

Oh well I say its probably for the best too, I mean its not like we wouldn't have noticed the sudden swell of ships built in India destined for Persia and the Hedjaz.....

At least this way things are out in the open without the silly little quibble about some treaty.

Actually the RN will probably shrink a bit over the next 2-3 years as the last Great War era ships are released from service until my new construction catches up.

In 1941 Bharat approached Great Britain with an offer to be allowed to built a series of trade protection light carriers being counted againts the capital ship quota allowed by the ABUSE Treaty. Great Britain refused this initial approach but countered by allowing Bharat to build a Flying Deck Cruiser instead on the same terms. Bharat knew the dangers involved in the construction of a Flying Deck Cruiser but it was the only legal way being allowed to increase the number of aircraft carrying ships available so they finally relented and keel was laid down late in 1942.

Mysore, India Flying Deck Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
14,720 t light; 15,156 t standard; 16,604 t normal; 17,762 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
733.44 ft / 721.78 ft x 72.18 ft x 22.31 ft (normal load)
223.55 m / 220.00 m x 22.00 m x 6.80 m

Armament:
9 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
20 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,188 lbs / 539 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 473.65 ft / 144.37 m 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 473.65 ft / 144.37 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 94,469 shp / 70,474 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,606 tons

Complement:
730 - 950

Cost:
£6.271 million / $25.084 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 149 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 3,330 tons, 20.1 %
- Belts: 699 tons, 4.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 679 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 374 tons, 2.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,577 tons, 9.5 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,468 tons, 14.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,173 tons, 37.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,884 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,600 tons, 15.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,729 lbs / 12,578 Kg = 269.3 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.48 ft / 6.55 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197.8 %
Waterplane Area: 36,097 Square feet or 3,354 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 560 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.05
- Longitudinal: 1.10
- Overall: 1.05
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

One catapult forward and one to the side
36 aircrafts= 2160 tons
radar, misc weight, etc. = 440 tons

I'd say a layout graphic is important for hybrids, almost mandatory.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
I'd say a layout graphic is important for hybrids, almost mandatory.

is basically the C&R 1931 proposed cruiser but larger to actually make flying operations possible. The flying deck extend to close to 140m with a sponson to the side akin to the layout of the historical 1945 carrier proposal and slightly angled as the historical CF2 proposal. Catapults are mandatory to launch aircrafts, barriers and arresters will be in place to help iwth landings. The raised turret and the bridge will be slightly on the opposite direction of the angled deck to compensate for the weight.

I don't see that getting a handful more aircraft to sea is worth India building what they know to be a not very good ship. Isn't it better off simply waiting and building something else with the money (or building infrastructure)

I kind of agree with RA, why not build a 10-12 kt carrier for Persia and downgrade the Karkas to a training carrier or finance a second Palang cruiser

Bharat's response to the Australian Battlecruisers. Will be constructed concurrently with the Full size BB.

Rajaram I, India Battlecruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
33,409 t light; 35,388 t standard; 37,676 t normal; 39,506 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721.78 ft / 721.78 ft x 104.99 ft x 33.46 ft (normal load)
220.00 m / 220.00 m x 32.00 m x 10.20 m

Armament:
6 - 16.14" / 410 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2,102.91lbs / 953.86kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (4x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (10x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
32 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
40 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (10x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 14,332 lbs / 6,501 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 436.35 ft / 133.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 436.35 ft / 133.00 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 8.27" / 210 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.18" / 30 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 157,980 shp / 117,853 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,119 tons

Complement:
1,351 - 1,757

Cost:
£20.694 million / $82.777 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,792 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 11,319 tons, 30.0 %
- Belts: 2,596 tons, 6.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 751 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 1,841 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 5,845 tons, 15.5 %
- Conning Tower: 286 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 4,127 tons, 11.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,671 tons, 41.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,267 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
54,847 lbs / 24,878 Kg = 26.1 x 16.1 " / 410 mm shells or 7.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.520
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.23 ft / 8.30 m
- Mid (50 %): 27.23 ft / 8.30 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 25.33 ft / 7.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.8 %
Waterplane Area: 53,502 Square feet or 4,971 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,005 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 2.02
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Thank God for the G3s...

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Thank God for the G3s...

And Hood, the Renown's, Tiger and Panther, the HMAS Lion even the Leopards all of which can deal with her so long as there are three ships. Raj can deal out some punishment, but all you need are three ships with 13.8in guns or higher......

Canada demands royalty payments for India's intention to construct yet another Renown knockoff. (The Japanese still owe me payments on theirs...which are more impressive, to boot)

India goes all-forward? That's...... unusual. The deck armor's good, but the side armor's pretty marginal. I suppose the idea is to engage at long range and use the ship's speed to keep out of closer engagements. Very extensive heavy AA battery.

Since I'm not a fan of the all-forward arrangement, I'd be tempted (in India's shoes) to look at something like this (it's a development of the BCs that HDW designed for Argentina and Brazil, modified to use Indian calibers and for Indian conditions):

Rajaram I, Indian Battlecruiser laid down 1941

Displacement:
34,008 t light; 35,941 t standard; 38,558 t normal; 40,651 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(811.26 ft / 787.40 ft) x 91.86 ft (Bulges 98.43 ft) x (31.66 / 33.05 ft)
(247.27 m / 240.00 m) x 28.00 m (Bulges 30.00 m) x (9.65 / 10.07 m)

Armament:
9 - 13.78" / 350 mm 52.0 cal guns - 1,543.24lbs / 700.00kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1941 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 4.92" / 125 mm 45.0 cal guns - 60.10lbs / 27.26kg shells, 360 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1941 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
36 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 1.45lbs / 0.66kg shells, 600 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
16 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 85.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 900 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
4 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 15,027 lbs / 6,816 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.6" / 370 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 29.07 ft / 8.86 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 82.02 ft / 25.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 6.69" / 170 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 4.72" / 120 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 157,877 shp / 117,776 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,710 tons

Complement:
1,375 - 1,788

Cost:
£20.024 million / $80.095 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,307 tons, 8.6 %
- Guns: 3,307 tons, 8.6 %
Armour: 12,646 tons, 32.8 %
- Belts: 4,177 tons, 10.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,084 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 2,837 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 4,316 tons, 11.2 %
- Conning Tower: 232 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,172 tons, 10.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,583 tons, 35.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,549 tons, 11.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
54,569 lbs / 24,752 Kg = 41.7 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 17.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.555
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.92 ft / 1.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 23.75 ft / 7.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.2 %
Waterplane Area: 52,555 Square feet or 4,883 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 194 lbs/sq ft or 947 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Main belt consists of a 50mm decapping plate backed by the 320mm main belt. Upper belt is an extension of the decapping plate.

300 tons reserved for aircraft, radar, and growth.