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Just made this sim so boring with this. Now we just have a Cold War for the next 15 years and that will be the end of this. Just build ships and stare at each other. Wow! that will be so interesting.
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I'm just curious as to why SEAR saw fit to exclude Iberia and Denmark, who both have interests in the Far east, and why they would want to deny themselves the use of the Panama canal!
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It may drive the SAE right into the arms of SATSUMA even if that´s a place the SAE never wanted to be. :o/
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The SAE has no interest in joining SATSUMA other than my enemys enemy is my friend. Fact is the new treaty is made to cause problems in the SAEs backyard - and everybody knows the Indian Ocean always has been of special importance to the SAE.
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Would the joining of the Netherlands not be a violation of article 15 of SANTA (you know, the secret part)? While SAER is no threat to the SAE directly, the fact that the SAE would have to assist India should they be attacked will most likely put the SAE in conflict with the Netherlands.
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SAE before signing has to be rated some kind of diplomatic lapse at least.
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SATSUMA set the presedent, NATO raised the bar high and the ABC alliance continued the trend so its no surprise that SEAR is the next in line. It looks to me like alliances based on mutual prevention of war are becoming extinct as regional alliances are set up.
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SEAR is not a 1930's alliance, it is from the 50's & 60's and reminds me of the time when Lady Green pointed out to the sim that our politics were from the wrong era.
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That and we have a great lack of bad guys. Hitler's dead, Stalin's dead, everyone wants to be the good guys...
This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (Jan 28th 2008, 6:43am)
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Originally posted by Desertfox
That and we have a great lack of bad guys. Hitler's dead, Stalin's dead, everyone wants to be the good guys...
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Article V.
The Contracting Signatories agree to the following division of responsibilities in wartime and that each Signatory should share reconnaissance and plan co-operative operations for the benefit of all Contracting Signatories.
........
Canada: Protection of Canadian Pacific coastline and operations in the Northern Pacific and screening of the Panama Canal with Royal Navy support
This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Jan 28th 2008, 2:30pm)
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Originally posted by Commodore Green
SAER is not just anti-SATSUMA!
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Article V.
The Contracting Signatories agree to the following division of responsibilities in wartime and that each Signatory should share reconnaissance and plan co-operative operations for the benefit of all Contracting Signatories.
........
Canada: Protection of Canadian Pacific coastline and operations in the Northern Pacific and screening of the Panama Canal with Royal Navy support
This provision alone drags Iberia into conflict with it.
Do the Dutch not appreciate the protection that Dutch shippoing and Surinam benefit from from having Iberian vessels in the Caribbean, that they would allow such an inflamatory clause to be placed in the treaty.
SATSUMA has NO interests in the Eastern Pacific, why is Iberia targeted!!
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Originally posted by Commodore Green
This provision alone drags Iberia into conflict with it.
Do the Dutch not appreciate the protection that Dutch shippoing and Surinam benefit from from having Iberian vessels in the Caribbean, that they would allow such an inflamatory clause to be placed in the treaty.
SATSUMA has NO interests in the Eastern Pacific, why is Iberia targeted!!
This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (Jan 29th 2008, 3:34am)
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Originally posted by Hood
Great Britain would support the Dutch statement above. I only added the Panama to be sure that if war broke out and Iberia found that it could not or was unwilling to join the war then the Panama would be protected (sealed off to Satsuma ships) but territorial waters would not be infringed.
It seems some very liberal and dodgy meanings are being put to the words. If Satsuma plays nicely and does not use force then the Treaty never gets used. Simple as that.
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Originally posted by Commodore Green
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Originally posted by Hood
Great Britain would support the Dutch statement above. I only added the Panama to be sure that if war broke out and Iberia found that it could not or was unwilling to join the war then the Panama would be protected (sealed off to Satsuma ships) but territorial waters would not be infringed.
It seems some very liberal and dodgy meanings are being put to the words. If Satsuma plays nicely and does not use force then the Treaty never gets used. Simple as that.
So logic plays no part in your planning.!!
What idiot is going to sail completely away from his home waters, pass through the canal, to attack one of SAER's members in it's own back yard, when it's going to come up against the British, French, and Dutch home fleets, as well as the Russian Atlantic fleet.
And before any of you say it, Walter maybe "Mad as a Hatter", but he is most definately NOT an idiot (Sorry Walter ;-) )
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Well, it did rather seem as if Japan was cozying up to Brazil and Argentina.
This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Jan 30th 2008, 5:13pm)
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Originally posted by HoOmAn
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Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
There is also some potential for India operating around the Cape into the Atlantic.
WHy should they?
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the leaders of the SAER nations sleep with dozens of weapons in their bed...
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Article IV.
The Contracting Signatories agree to the following division of responsibilities and rightful areas of influence in peacetime and that each Signatory should maintain a proper regular reconnaissance of their designated area for the benefit of all Contracting Signatories.
Great Britain: Pakistani coast, Eastern Indian Ocean, Burmese coast, Strait of Malacca (jointly with Netherlands), Singapore, Sarawak, the South China Sea and Hong Kong.
Netherlands: Dutch East Indies, Java Sea, Celebes Sea, Banda Sea, Bali Sea, Molucca Sea and Southern Indian Ocean (jointly with Australia)
France: Indochinese coastline and Gulf of Thailand
Russia: Northern Pacific and Sea of Japan
Australia: Island of Guinea, Arafura Sea and South Western Pacific
Canada: Canadian Pacific coastline
Article V.
The Contracting Signatories agree to the following division of responsibilities in wartime and that each Signatory should share reconnaissance and plan co-operative operations for the benefit of all Contracting Signatories.
Great Britain: Strikes against India in the Indian Ocean, protection of the Burmese coast, denial of the Strait of Malacca to SATSUMA shipping in cooperation with Dutch forces, Singapore, Sarawak, offensive operations in the South China Sea
Netherlands: Operations in the eastern Indian Ocean and denial of SATSUMA to sea routes via the waterways of the Malay Archipelago
France: Defence of the Indochinese coastline and operations in the Gulf of Thailand, further operations with joint Franco-Russo fleet
Russia: Operations in the Northern Pacific and Sea of Japan
Australia: Protection of the Island of Guinea and South Western Pacific
Canada: Protection of Canadian Pacific coastline and operations in the Northern Pacific and screening of the Panama Canal with Royal Navy support
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