Bruce, sorry for the misquote. Indeed there seems to be a problem with data that we need to rectify moving forwards. Navweaps is good for info but there is not nearly enough elsewhere on the web and sources like Jane's Weapon Systems are hard to obtain (luckily my university library has a decade's worth from the 1980s). The problem is few of the 1940s and 1950s designs were built for a whole host of technical and financial reasons. Some proved intractable, others seemed not worth the effort. The RN for example was already working on 4.5in and 6in auto so why bother with the 5in MCDP? I wish there was more info on older naval automatic guns, indeed the 4in Vickers N fitted to the Chilean destroyers was never exported elsewhere so its relatively unknown.
Our recent, and stimulating discussion about the SAE/Indian heavy auto gun led to Hoo's great idea to list what nations had what. The big stumbling block is the lack of any quantifiable data. While several players, myself included, made shortlists there was no technical info. I do not know, for instance, the rate of the fire for the current Canadian 5.5in even though it equips my latest AA cruisers. The Italian and Dutch gun tables seem not have been updated since the 1930s and so we lack any real information. Had I posted HMS Revolution without any RoF data then no-one would have been able to criticise it technically on that basis. I wanted everyone to know what was desired and what would be.
Maybe we should start a separate thread so that everyone can list and explain and ask questions about auto guns. We need to work out the groundrules before we get deeper into the era of automatics and, as Rocky says, we end up with more arguments.
Rocky,
Good points, I've amended the boxes. I thought 7ft would just do it but its slightly too low I think. I've changed the HMGs for single 40mm. The layout is historical from the original cruiser-destroyer design this ship is broadly based on. At first the design had three guns A, Q, Y. Then with the reduced RoF I added a fourth mount as B mount, first superfiring and then lowered to reduce topweight. All should have reasonable arcs and to tackle a cruiser beam fire is going to be crucial.
Here is an amended sim;
HMS Revolution, Great Britain Cruiser-Destroyer laid down 1945
Displacement:
3,499 t light; 3,673 t standard; 4,178 t normal; 4,582 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
463.00 ft / 448.00 ft x 48.60 ft x 14.60 ft (normal load)
141.12 m / 136.55 m x 14.81 m x 4.45 m
Armament:
4 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 80.00lbs / 36.29kg shells, 1945 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 348 lbs / 158 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 450
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 120.00 ft / 36.58 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 41 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
- Conning tower: 0.50" / 13 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 34.04 kts
Range 7,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 909 tons
Complement:
259 - 337
Cost:
£2.621 million / $10.482 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 53 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 137 tons, 3.3 %
- Belts: 110 tons, 2.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 1,515 tons, 36.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,523 tons, 36.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 679 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 270 tons, 6.5 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,862 lbs / 1,298 Kg = 34.4 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.22 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.36 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.50 ft / 8.08 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.50 ft / 6.55 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Quarterdeck (14 %): 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Stern: 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Average freeboard: 21.25 ft / 6.48 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 135.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.6 %
Waterplane Area: 14,550 Square feet or 1,352 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 275 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.66
- Longitudinal: 2.66
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Belt armour is box protection for magazines (40 tons misc weight to sim box roofs)
Torpedo tubes are fixed at an anlge of 55 degrees with one reload for each tube
Twin Squid A/S Mortars are fitted
Electronic Systems;
Surface Search Type 970 X-Band
Height-Finder Radio-Location Type 272
Aerial Search Type 971
Two Gunnery Director Type 288 with 'Tallboy' console
Four Heavy Automatic Gunnery Director Type 289 mounted on four CRBF (Close-Range Blind Firing)
VHF Direction Finder Type 295Q
Type 293 Passive Radio Intercept series (293P, Q, M & O)
Type 297 Passive Radio-Location Intercept (S, C and X-Bands)
ASDIC Type 147
Deep ASDIC Type 148
Depth-Finding ASDIC Type 145