WesWorld

The Persian Government has started to reconsider if two CLs are necessary and has ordered a study for a CA to be the flagship of the Cruiser Squadron and counter any future Saudi purchases.

Kaveh, Persia CA laid down 1935

Displacement:
19 878 t light; 21 353 t standard; 23 223 t normal; 24 719 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(832,45 ft / 820,21 ft) x 91,86 ft x (19,69 / 20,68 ft)
(253,73 m / 250,00 m) x 28,00 m x (6,00 / 6,30 m)

Armament:
9 - 10,00" / 254 mm 45,0 cal guns - 504,26lbs / 228,73kg shells, 300 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4,92" / 125 mm 45,0 cal guns - 60,10lbs / 27,26kg shells, 450 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
24 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
6 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5 511 lbs / 2 500 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 506,89 ft / 154,50 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1,97" / 50 mm 539,70 ft / 164,50 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8,00" / 203 mm 4,00" / 102 mm 4,00" / 102 mm
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm

- Box over machinery & magazines: 1,57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1,97" / 50 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 132 884 shp / 99 132 Kw = 32,00 kts
Range 10 000nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3 367 tons

Complement:
939 - 1 222

Cost:
£8,865 million / $35,460 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 499 tons, 6,5 %
Armour: 4 122 tons, 17,7 %
- Belts: 2 141 tons, 9,2 %
- Armament: 838 tons, 3,6 %
- Armour Deck: 1 109 tons, 4,8 %
- Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0,1 %
Machinery: 3 775 tons, 16,3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 483 tons, 45,1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 344 tons, 14,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
48 292 lbs / 21 905 Kg = 96,6 x 10,0 " / 254 mm shells or 3,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
Metacentric height 6,2 ft / 1,9 m
Roll period: 15,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,41

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,548 / 0,555
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28,64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15,00 %, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forward deck: 25,00 %, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
- Aft deck: 45,00 %, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m, 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Average freeboard: 28,54 ft / 8,70 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 314,4 %
Waterplane Area: 52 486 Square feet or 4 876 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 740 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,97
- Longitudinal: 1,30
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

she will consume 2/3 of your factory output for 2.5 years, and at the end of that time you'll have one ship that can be on one place at any given time.

Her main battery is adequate, as is her armor, but with only 105mm secondaries she's vulnerable to torpedo attack from modern destroyers. Guns in the range of 120mm-130mm have more stopping power against destroyers while still being useful AA weapons.

Torpedos on a ship like this only adds to the risk of explosion. If you handle her right, your guns will destroy the target before you get to torpedo range.

Stop increasing the trim when you get to gunnery steadiness of 70. That still gets the "steady gun platform" rating, while increasing her ability to survive damage.

Slightly redesigned.

As for the cost, there isn´t much other useful things that Persia can put its industry output into. And who knows when the Saudis will get another capital ship

Hi!

Nice design. I´m not sure what her mission would be and what you´ve used to calculate her armour for. Could you give some details?

Regarding her design in general I see many detailes that can be played with to get a more weight effective design. For example it is not necessary to carry 300 rounds for each main gun. Historically 80 to 120 would be normal for capital ship sized guns, probably 150 for slightly smaller calibers. I also wonder why you have no misc weight on such a large unit?

Below is one of my designs. She´s "copyright" as I most likely will build her but she might give an idea what´s possible. In fact, she´s a superior design on avout 2/3 the displacement of your vessel. Compared to your design she lacks the upper belt but her main belt is higher and guns as well as deck are much better protected and capable to withstand 21cm guns out to 240hm (standard shell weight used, no super-heavies).


CA36E, South African Capital Heavy Cruiser laid down 1936

Displacement:
14.974 t light; 15.616 t standard; 16.901 t normal; 17.930 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
665,04 ft / 652,89 ft x 74,64 ft x 24,28 ft (normal load)
202,70 m / 199,00 m x 22,75 m x 7,40 m

Armament:
9 - 9,84" / 250 mm guns (3x3 guns), 524,70lbs / 238,00kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (6x2 guns), 46,40lbs / 21,05kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
20 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (6 mounts), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised guns
24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x6 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5.324 lbs / 2.415 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7,87" / 200 mm 349,28 ft / 106,46 m 15,42 ft / 4,70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 82% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8,66" / 220 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 7,87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 1,38" / 35 mm
3rd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100.000 shp / 74.600 Kw = 32,13 kts
Range 8.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.313 tons

Complement:
740 - 963

Cost:
£7,543 million / $30,173 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 612 tons, 3,6%
Armour: 4.572 tons, 27,1%
- Belts: 1.851 tons, 10,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 1.000 tons, 5,9%
- Armour Deck: 1.721 tons, 10,2%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 2.806 tons, 16,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6.884 tons, 40,7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.928 tons, 11,4%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21.991 lbs / 9.975 Kg = 46,1 x 9,8 " / 250 mm shells or 2,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
Roll period: 15,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28,87 ft / 8,80 m
- Forecastle (35%): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Mid (54%): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m (15,09 ft / 4,60 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
- Stern: 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
- Average freeboard: 20,17 ft / 6,15 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157,2%
Waterplane Area: 33.764 Square feet or 3.137 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 676 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,35
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

From what I understand miscellaneous weights are for radar,aircraft etc. Mission? Show the flag, trade war & independent operations (hence high number of shells) or simper outgun what you cant outrun

Ignore the Kaveh design there is something very wrong with my SpringSharp

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Ignore the Kaveh design there is something very wrong with my SpringSharp

???

You´re using SSv3 and that´s just a beta. In WesWorld SSv2.1 should be used anyway.

300 shells still is a lot. Even the OTL Panzerschiffe of the Germans didn´t carry that many. I also wonder why Per´sia plans long and independant operations. In what theatre/scenario? Short, fast hit and run tactics make sense but long operations?

You also have to think about how long you expect your ship to fight. Her guns will have a standard RPM of ~3. So for 30 minutes of sustained fire you need 90 shells. However, 30mins you´ll never have constant gun fights. RPM will vary, even more so if you want to watch the fall of shells to correct aiming.

The OTL capital ships fighting the battles at Doggerbank and Jutland had 80-100 shells each and IIRC non ran out of ammo even if some where low on ammio late in the night after Jutland. So if that many shells are enough for epic battles, they should be eneough for a persian Super-CA too.... ;o)

Quoted

Compared to your design she lacks the upper belt...

...an upper and end belt might be useful.

The SS 2 uses .net framework which doesn´t play nice with the rest of my programs

Quoted

Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov

Quoted

Compared to your design she lacks the upper belt...

...an upper and end belt might be useful.

Well, if so then you´d need more than just 50mm over 60% of your hull (160m of 250m). The hull he designed is BISMARK in length but only ~160m are covered by armor of various thickness. That´s asking for desaster....

On the other hand those 60% overall length seem typical for SS calculations as my own designs belt also only covers 106m/199m. *shrug*

I'd note that the Persian design would require a class four drydock for repairs and maitenance. Would one be built in Persia, or would Persia try to have maintenance and repairs done abroad (India has one such dock...)

Well, that was the main reason I tried to squeeze the Kongos onto type 3 slips. More options available.

Regarding main gun shells, I am not sure if there are any OTL warships with a main gun greater than 6" which had more than 150 shells per gun. Navweaps gives the Alaska as 166 shells per gun. I think that that might be the only exception. Not sure about the secondaries. The data Navweaps gives on those guns (mainly DP/AA) might be based on the number of shells per gun as was used during the war.

Well Nav weaps also puts the York class CA's having 172.5 8" shells per gun, but that is about the maximum I can find.

most RL 6inch gun cruisers seem to have had 200 shells per gun.

It's a good thing York had an even number of main guns, then.

*rofl*

*Cleans off his computer screen.*

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
I'd note that the Persian design would require a class four drydock for repairs and maitenance. Would one be built in Persia, or would Persia try to have maintenance and repairs done abroad (India has one such dock...)

This design is dead, so it doesn´t really matter what slips it uses but if built India or Japan would probably be front runners