WesWorld

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Personally, I would like to build 4 of the Oregon class, keep the Big Six, and bring the New Mexico's to the standard of the Big Six. That gives me 8 28 knot ships, 9 26 knot ships, and 4 32 knot ships total.

On the New Mexicos, they will be coming up on 15 years since refit in 1949..and 30 years from completion. While the Iowas are still ship-shape, from a role-play perspective, metallurgy made a fair amount of advances from 1920-1940. The armor steels on the older warships, the structural steels- they weren't as good. Now, granted, I'm currently refitting the DeRutyer of the same generation, but that was to keep my numbers up "affordably". Anyhow, the Admirals always want new shinys.

Well, the New Mexico's would be the last plank in that plan, and they might just be mothballed. The Americans are good at doing that sort of thing, mothballing ships just in case they need them later.

Super Alaska's, then Oregon's. With that, the Americans have 10 modern ships by 1949. Not bad.

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Well, the New Mexico's would be the last plank in that plan, and they might just be mothballed. The Americans are good at doing that sort of thing, mothballing ships just in case they need them later.

I'm at the point where the International picture (SATSUMA) and the internal political picture have changed substantially.

The prior goal was to be as formidable as possible in the early 1940s to deter aggression. I got to the early 1940s, and thing have changed....so now I'm considering mothballing/scrapping ships and building their successors. So

I've found your BC/BB discussion of particular interest. For my part I tried ACs/BCs at various levels and wound up with something disturbingly like a slightly beefier CB-1 Alaska with 8x320/325mm as my "most likely".

All very interesting, though I would have liked to hear more about potential enemies. Wasn't it a habbit in the BB-era to balance one's designs against those of the most likely enemy? What does that mean for the USN (or NL)?

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
All very interesting, though I would have liked to hear more about potential enemies. Wasn't it a habbit in the BB-era to balance one's designs against those of the most likely enemy? What does that mean for the USN (or NL)?

Somewhere above I raised the question of OPFOR, which for the US is probably Japan (the other big Pacific power) and Iberia (+AEGIS). For the USN, the Japanese have more big ships to justify the USN capital ships, the Polish report that Canadien wrote does a good job summing up the Iberian navy, and the USN would have a hard sell in front of Congress based on that.

For the Dutch, I wrote that "Defense Review" back in my..1936(?) news which tried to look at projected needs. This is when my expectations regarding post-Cleito vessels were formed.

However, the way I was role-playing the Dutch was on the presumption the Bahratis would pull out of Clieto when they hit their construction limit (which they did) allowing SATSUMA to get a jump in "next gen" ships (which it did), meaning that by 1940-1942 the Dutch would be at very high hazard of war as SATSUMA took advantage of a momentary power advantage.

This drove such things as seeking alliance with British Malaysia and Australia (which became SAER), the slow Ijelsijk class 15 " BBs that could be added in time for the war and which could form a slower squadron to hit a enemy amphibious/supply force or serve as convoy guards, the aquisition of the SAE battlewagons in time for the war, the Service Life Extensions of some ships - and the delay of DeRutyer's extension - all to be able to project peak force at the time of decision.

This theoretically could either raise the cost of war and deter aggression, or allow the Dutch to conduct their "Tar baby" defense and hold on until allies mobilized and arrived.

From the Dutch point of view..it worked. War was averted. Granted, from the player point of view I expect entirely different reasons were at work, but the withdrawal of Bahrat from SATSUMA I would guess had to do with a strategic decision that an oceanic struggle with SAER would be disasterous, but land could be exploited. So shades of WWI they went back to bullying the Brits.

But the subsequent unraveling of SATSUMA, and the passage of time through the percieved period of peak danger, both leave the Dutch navy wondering what exactly they should be planning for.

Just when you thought you had the answer, Bharat went and changed the question...

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Just when you thought you had the answer, Bharat went and changed the question...

Evil Indians complicating my life !!!

Says Rowdy Roddy Bharat.

Quoted

Evil Indians complicating my life !!!

They're only evil because you think of them as evil. If you start to think of them as good, then there's nothing around that is complicating your life and nothing for you to worry about.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

Evil Indians complicating my life !!!

They're only evil because you think of them as evil. If you start to think of them as good, then there's nothing around that is complicating your life and nothing for you to worry about.

Oh please, the Dutch have worked on perfecting their paranoia to a much higher level than that. There's other things we suspect are plotting to complicate our lives...

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
All very interesting, though I would have liked to hear more about potential enemies. Wasn't it a habbit in the BB-era to balance one's designs against those of the most likely enemy? What does that mean for the USN (or NL)?

Yes Hoo, I suppose one could take that view in that the Iowa's were built IOTL to counter the Kongo's, and any other fast ships the Germans might have. Dunkerque's were built as a response to Deutschlands, and then the Germans and Italians responded with Scharnhorsts and Littorios. The problem when you design ships to respond to what others are doing is that it leads to an inevitable escalation in size. You need the bigger ship to fit the bigger guns and armor. And quite frankly, the Americans can't afford to play that game. I only have 30 factories after all. I will leave that to the Afrikaaners I guess they can afford that sort of thing.

Final Alaska design (I hope)


USS Alaska, United States Battlecruiser laid down 1943

Displacement:
34,673 t light; 36,771 t standard; 40,583 t normal; 43,633 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
863.40 ft / 845.00 ft x 102.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
263.16 m / 257.56 m x 31.09 m x 9.75 m

Armament:
12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,140.00lbs / 517.10kg shells, 1943 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (12x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1943 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 6 raised mounts - superfiring
56 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (14x4 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
40 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10 mounts), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1943 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised guns
Weight of broadside 15,106 lbs / 6,852 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 475.00 ft / 144.78 m 12.75 ft / 3.89 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 475.00 ft / 144.78 m 28.58 ft / 8.71 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 157,241 shp / 117,301 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,861 tons

Complement:
1,429 - 1,858

Cost:
£19.892 million / $79.567 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,496 tons, 3.7 %
Armour: 12,703 tons, 31.3 %
- Belts: 3,165 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,005 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 2,626 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 5,602 tons, 13.8 %
- Conning Tower: 305 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 4,061 tons, 10.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,913 tons, 39.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,910 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
63,157 lbs / 28,647 Kg = 73.1 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 9.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.28 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (21 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Average freeboard: 22.18 ft / 6.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.3 %
Waterplane Area: 60,566 Square feet or 5,627 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 924 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I like it. There's a good blend of firepower, protection, speed, and affordability - makes me wish I had the cash to order something akin for France...

Carriers

USS Essex continues construction this year, also another Essex class is laid down to be named USS Intrepid. Finally, a third carrier is to be laid down, designed as an improved USS Hornet. She is to be named USS Wasp. The Navy Department wanted a third Essex, but budgetary constraints meant a smaller carrier would be laid down instead.


USS Wasp, United States Aircraft Carrier laid down 1942

Displacement:
22,315 t light; 22,892 t standard; 25,429 t normal; 27,458 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
811.08 ft / 770.00 ft x 83.25 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
247.22 m / 234.70 m x 25.37 m x 7.92 m

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns (16 mounts), 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 761 lbs / 345 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 476.78 ft / 145.32 m 10.95 ft / 3.34 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 476.78 ft / 145.32 m 22.93 ft / 6.99 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 124,411 shp / 92,810 Kw = 31.10 kts
Range 12,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,565 tons

Complement:
1,006 - 1,308

Cost:
£8.374 million / $33.497 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 95 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 3,847 tons, 15.1 %
- Belts: 884 tons, 3.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 809 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 41 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 2,038 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 75 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 3,250 tons, 12.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,623 tons, 33.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,113 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6,500 tons, 25.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,752 lbs / 20,299 Kg = 716.0 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.534
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 39.40 ft / 12.01 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 39.40 ft / 12.01 m (29.75 ft / 9.07 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 29.75 ft / 9.07 m
- Quarterdeck (19 %): 29.75 ft / 9.07 m
- Stern: 29.75 ft / 9.07 m
- Average freeboard: 31.59 ft / 9.63 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 248.3 %
Waterplane Area: 44,072 Square feet or 4,094 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 144 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 562 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.85
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

72 Aircraft as built

Cruisers

With the completion of the first pair of Los Angeles class heavy cruisers, the Navy Department plans to lay down two further of this class named USS New Orleans and USS Indianapolis. Designs are also being drawn up to determine the feasibility of either going to a twin 10in, or an auto 8in for the last pair (it is a class of 6).

The Northampton class cruisers began their refit with USS Northampton at the end of the last fiscal year. This fiscal year, USS Louisville, USS Chester, and USS Chicago will all undergo a similar refit.

The Olympia class cruiser program continues, with USS Savanna completing at the end of the fiscal year and USS Nashville nearing completion. Two more are planned of this class, and design studies will begin on the next class of light cruiser this year.

The Columbia Class cruisers begin a life-extension refit, with new secondary armament, and the addition of radar. Two are to be refitted beginning at the end of the fiscal year.


USS Columbia, United States Light Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
7,494 t light; 7,741 t standard; 8,871 t normal; 9,776 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
557.39 ft / 550.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 18.60 ft (normal load)
169.89 m / 167.64 m x 17.07 m x 5.67 m

Armament:
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (5x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,215 lbs / 551 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.50" / 89 mm 404.63 ft / 123.33 m 8.98 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.50" / 38 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 1.25" / 32 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 82,837 shp / 61,796 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,035 tons

Complement:
456 - 594

Cost:
£2.508 million / $10.033 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 152 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 1,189 tons, 13.4 %
- Belts: 521 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 64 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 592 tons, 6.7 %
- Conning Tower: 12 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 2,689 tons, 30.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,313 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,378 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,159 lbs / 4,155 Kg = 84.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.542
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.65 ft / 9.04 m
- Forecastle (13 %): 27.02 ft / 8.24 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.27 ft / 5.57 m
- Quarterdeck (26 %): 16.52 ft / 5.04 m
- Stern: 16.52 ft / 5.04 m
- Average freeboard: 20.52 ft / 6.26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.0 %
Waterplane Area: 21,335 Square feet or 1,982 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 452 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent