WesWorld

(I feel that everything on the board is slowing down slightly which is probably caused by Christmas, so...)

Your thoughts on these two ‘different’ ships.
Japan has now a capital ship force consisting of the Mikasa PD, four Fuso class BB and two Nagato class BB. That is a total of 7 hulls and 211,530 tons. This leaves me with 5 hulls and 148,470 tons. With a three-ship class for a total of 120,000 tons to be constructed in a few years time, that would leave me with 2 hulls and 28,470 tons. I brushed up two other designs and use them to fill the final two positions in Japan’s capital ship category. Yes, I could build a 28,000 ton battle cruiser or build two 14,000 ton Basilan type heavy cruisers, but that is probably something everyone would do. Perhaps I am wasting my tons here, but I wanted to build something that the other player navies would probably not build using their capital ship tonnage. Something different.
(note that the ship tonnages given above are 95% of the actual tonnages (using the 5% cheat))

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Chikan Chuui, Japan Coast Defense Battleship laid down 1926

Displacement:
18,420 t light; 19,240 t standard; 21,550 t normal; 23,398 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
591.29 ft / 580.00 ft x 80.00 ft (Bulges 92.00 ft) x 25.70 ft (normal load)
180.22 m / 176.78 m x 24.38 m (Bulges 28.04 m) x 7.83 m

Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 925.00lbs / 419.57kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (2x2 guns), 36.00lbs / 16.33kg shells, 1921 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (8x2 guns), 36.00lbs / 16.33kg shells, 1921 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
24 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,466 lbs / 2,026 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 20.5" / 521 mm 214.00 ft / 65.23 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.50" / 38 mm 214.00 ft / 65.23 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Main Belt covers 57 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.25" / 57 mm 214.00 ft / 65.23 m 23.59 ft / 7.19 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 20.0" / 508 mm 15.0" / 381 mm 18.0" / 457 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 7.00" / 178 mm, Conning tower: 18.00" / 457 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 45,000 shp / 33,570 Kw = 23.70 kts
Range 10,900nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,157 tons

Complement:
889 - 1,156

Cost:
£4.449 million / $17.796 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 526 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 9,287 tons, 43.1 %
- Belts: 2,570 tons, 11.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 420 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 1,803 tons, 8.4 %
- Armour Deck: 4,193 tons, 19.5 %
- Conning Tower: 300 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 1,440 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,067 tons, 32.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,130 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,381 lbs / 23,306 Kg = 59.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 11.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.08 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.20 ft / 8.29 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.10 ft / 6.13 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.10 ft / 5.82 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.10 ft / 5.82 m
- Stern: 19.10 ft / 5.82 m
- Average freeboard: 20.02 ft / 6.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 56.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.1 %
Waterplane Area: 32,382 Square feet or 3,008 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 701 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Main belt is 20.11inch with 0.39 inch steel plate backing, Belt inclined at 12 degrees.



Hideyoshi Hashiba, Japan Monitor laid down 1926

Displacement:
10,272 t light; 10,724 t standard; 11,811 t normal; 12,680 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
418.06 ft / 410.00 ft x 80.00 ft (Bulges 94.00 ft) x 17.30 ft (normal load)
127.42 m / 124.97 m x 24.38 m (Bulges 28.65 m) x 5.27 m

Armament:
2 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,700.00lbs / 771.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline forward
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 36.00lbs / 16.33kg shells, 1921 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,766 lbs / 1,708 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 106.00 ft / 32.31 m 10.73 ft / 3.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.50" / 38 mm 106.00 ft / 32.31 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Main Belt covers 40 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 13.0" / 330 mm 16.0" / 406 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 6.00" / 152 mm, Conning tower: 18.00" / 457 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 shp / 7,460 Kw = 16.71 kts
Range 6,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,956 tons

Complement:
566 - 736

Cost:
£2.741 million / $10.963 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 463 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 5,014 tons, 42.5 %
- Belts: 1,255 tons, 10.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 845 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 2,713 tons, 23.0 %
- Conning Tower: 201 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 320 tons, 2.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,475 tons, 37.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,539 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,103 lbs / 15,015 Kg = 19.8 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 6.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 15.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.620
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 14.40 ft / 4.39 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.30 ft / 4.36 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.30 ft / 4.36 m
- Stern: 14.30 ft / 4.36 m
- Average freeboard: 15.02 ft / 4.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 39.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.8 %
Waterplane Area: 24,441 Square feet or 2,271 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 673 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.87
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

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Note that although these two ships will count against the capital ship tonnage, they will not be classified as capital ships but as coast defense ships so the data will appear there once construction starts and not in the capital ship thread.

BTW, Chikan chuui means Beware of Perverts. :-)
(chikan = masher, molester, pervert; chuui = caution, care)

How come 40mm AA and not 50mm?

Why have 20" thick armour? It is more or less impossible to create armour plates that thick. Quality seriously deteriorates after ~ 420mm thick. How about a 4" thick plate on the outer hull with a 16" belt inboard? more or less proof from all shells.

The monitor needs a raised mount as otherwise not all platforms below gunplatform of the turret machinery will fit into her hull....

I second RAs comment on armor thickness.

23,000 tons is a lot just to get 4x12" going 23kts. And RA is right, nobody could roll 20" plate in 1926.

Well you guy know it better, so that is why I posted the designs to see if I needed to make a few adjustments on those two designs. Still, I thought that with an 1890s design that had an 18 inch main belt it wouldn't be too impossible to have a 1920s design (30 years later) to have a 20 inch belt. Of course that 18" of the Fuji was amidship only. But one needs to sim the armor thickness as maximum so the Fuji would have to be simmed with an 18 inch belt.
I can always 'split' that main belt armor up as 0.4 inch , 4 inch, and 16.1 inch or slightly different. I'll take a look a bit later what exactly I will do.
I'll adjust the monitor as well. Slightly sloppy work on my part regarding the main turret.

HH with superfiring main guns.

Hideyoshi Hashiba, Japan Monitor laid down 1926

Displacement:
10,273 t light; 10,724 t standard; 11,811 t normal; 12,680 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
417.53 ft / 410.00 ft x 80.00 ft (Bulges 94.00 ft) x 17.30 ft (normal load)
127.26 m / 124.97 m x 24.38 m (Bulges 28.65 m) x 5.27 m

Armament:
2 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,700.00lbs / 771.11kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 36.00lbs / 16.33kg shells, 1921 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (6x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,762 lbs / 1,707 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 101.00 ft / 30.78 m 10.73 ft / 3.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.50" / 38 mm 101.00 ft / 30.78 m 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
Main Belt covers 38 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 6.00" / 152 mm, Conning tower: 18.00" / 457 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 8,000 shp / 5,968 Kw = 15.75 kts
Range 6,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,956 tons

Complement:
566 - 736

Cost:
£2.709 million / $10.835 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 463 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 4,942 tons, 41.8 %
- Belts: 1,218 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 810 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,713 tons, 23.0 %
- Conning Tower: 201 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 256 tons, 2.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,612 tons, 39.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,538 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,657 lbs / 13,452 Kg = 17.7 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 6.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.620
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 11.60 ft / 3.54 m
- Mid (50 %): 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
- Stern: 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
- Average freeboard: 12.21 ft / 3.72 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.8 %
Waterplane Area: 24,441 Square feet or 2,271 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 716 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.59
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily