WesWorld

I've started playing around with some older designs of Bernhard's in an attempt to develope the Iberian fleet.

What do you think of these, the first one is a 6 year update of one of his ships, the second is my pushing it to 2000 tons.

DD 1927, Iberia DD(L) laid down 1927

Displacement:
1,537 t light; 1,600 t standard; 1,739 t normal; 1,850 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
393.36 ft / 377.30 ft x 34.45 ft x 11.48 ft (normal load)
119.90 m / 115.00 m x 10.50 m x 3.50 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.53" / 13.5 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 314 lbs / 142 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.59" / 15 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,204 shp / 29,992 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 251 tons

Complement:
134 - 175

Cost:
£0.777 million / $3.106 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 39 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 15 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 14 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 906 tons, 52.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 527 tons, 30.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 202 tons, 11.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
470 lbs / 213 Kg = 7.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.408
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.15 ft / 6.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (47 %): 18.86 ft / 5.75 m (10.66 ft / 3.25 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Stern: 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
- Average freeboard: 14.99 ft / 4.57 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 188.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.9 %
Waterplane Area: 8,343 Square feet or 775 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 161 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.74
- Overall: 0.57
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform



DD(H) 1927, Iberia DD laid down 1927

Displacement:
1,915 t light; 1,998 t standard; 2,158 t normal; 2,286 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
406.40 ft / 390.42 ft x 36.09 ft x 13.78 ft (normal load)
123.87 m / 119.00 m x 11.00 m x 4.20 m

Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4 mounts), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 0.53" / 13.5 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 448 lbs / 203 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.59" / 15 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 50,271 shp / 37,502 Kw = 36.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 289 tons

Complement:
157 - 205

Cost:
£1.010 million / $4.041 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 56 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 20 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 1,169 tons, 54.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 619 tons, 28.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 243 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
489 lbs / 222 Kg = 7.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.389
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.75 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
- Mid (47 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m (10.75 ft / 3.28 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.75 ft / 3.28 m
- Stern: 10.75 ft / 3.28 m
- Average freeboard: 15.24 ft / 4.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 197.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.2 %
Waterplane Area: 8,948 Square feet or 831 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 0.57
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

The top one looks a fair bit more capable than anything i have produced. Nice work!

I have so far steered clear of DLs, as IMO that's the scout cruiser's job. Seems like another change in the admiralty ;-)

Seeing these two, it looks like I have to redesign my future Destroyers when I get home...
:-)

They both look fairly good.

Design A doesn´t look that special to me. It´s more or less what can be expected even though her very high misc weight allows her to load more stuff than most foreign ship of similar size, armament and speed.

Design B is a tough contender. With a broadside of 6x130mm guns (I just don´t get her layout...) and a speed of 36kn she offers interesting alternatives. She´d be a dangerous foe for French or Italian DDs and TBs.

Her range could be better. 5000nm at 12kn looks good on paper but in practice, with a fouled hull and - even more important - when assuming transit speeds will be higher than 12kn in general, her actual range will be much smaller, probably too small.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Design B is a tough contender. With a broadside of 6x130mm guns (I just don´t get her layout...) and a speed of 36kn she offers interesting alternatives. She´d be a dangerous foe for French or Italian DDs and TBs.

Her range could be better. 5000nm at 12kn looks good on paper but in practice, with a fouled hull and - even more important - when assuming transit speeds will be higher than 12kn in general, her actual range will be much smaller, probably too small.

The layout is A = twin, B = Single, X = Single, Y = Twin.

I'll see what I can do about the range, I suppose could bring her back down to 35 kts and squeeze in more bunker space.

Well, I´ll think twice about slowing her down. What´s her mission, what the theatre you plan to use her in? If it´s the Med against French and/or Italian fast combatants her superior speed is worth more than a few miles...

You could probably also give away a single gun. With 5x13cm she´s enough firepower to overwhelm any standard DD and the weight saved might help you to get more range.

...the 1929 Filipino DL:
[SIZE=1](layout is A-Bs-Q-Xs-Y)[/SIZE]

Filipino Zorzal-class frigate, laid down 1929

Displacement:
1,990 t light; 2,092 t standard; 2,355 t normal; 2,566 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
407.33 ft / 392.72 ft x 35.99 ft x 14.76 ft (normal load)
124.15 m / 119.70 m x 10.97 m x 4.50 m

Armament:
5 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 70.00lbs / 31.75kg shells, 1929 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 13.00lbs / 5.90kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
3 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (1x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in a deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1929 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.30" / 7.62 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1929 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread

Weight of broadside 379 lbs / 172 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Mines @ 1,000lb: 200
Depth Charges @ 550lb: 80

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm - 0.59" / 15 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42,900 shp / 32,003 Kw = 34.15 kts
Range 5,025nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 474 tons)

Complement:
168 - 219

Cost:
£1.064 million / $4.254 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 45 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 28 tons, 1.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,129 tons, 48.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 662 tons, 28.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 365 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 5.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
577 lbs / 262 Kg = 8.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 13.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.395
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.11 ft / 6.74 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.52 ft / 4.73 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.88 ft / 4.23 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.88 ft / 4.23 m
- Stern: 13.88 ft / 4.23 m
- Average freeboard: 14.98 ft / 4.57 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 89.9 %
Waterplane Area: 9,004 Square feet or 836 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 185 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 0.57
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Not bad either....but she´s about 2kn slower which makes a huge difference. Not sure if I would trade TTs for 2x 3" guns.

150ts misc weight is exessive - except own really wants to use this vessel as fast minelayer.

...don't forgot Atlantis, Iberia is an old advasary.

Its nice to have a few Iberian designs to influence my own.