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1

Wednesday, November 15th 2006, 5:07pm

Modifying ships while under construction

Question: what are the rules for modifying a ship while the ship is under construction? Ie, if Germany decides to modify a ship that is under construction from the design that the ship was laid down under, what's the additional cost, in time and resources? Do we just use the standard refit rules for this? Or do we do something different?

2

Wednesday, November 15th 2006, 6:36pm

I think we've only really considered for capital ship to carrier conversions before. Since those were fairly thorough jobs, I think the ruling was you'd figure out the level of refit/reconstruction necessary to make your changes, then apply that cost in resources and time to what you'd already built. After that, you'd have a partial complete carrier, and would just spend the remaining tonnage/time necessary to finish her.

3

Wednesday, November 15th 2006, 8:23pm

Depends on what you're modifying them for, and what point has been reached in their construction. Fairly major arrangement changes shortly after keellaying, for instance, shouldn't require hardly any additional work at all - but after launching anything more than, say, AA armament changes are going to require some serious elbow grease.

4

Thursday, November 16th 2006, 2:57pm

Quoted

I think we've only really considered for capital ship to carrier conversions before. Since those were fairly thorough jobs, I think the ruling was you'd figure out the level of refit/reconstruction necessary to make your changes, then apply that cost in resources and time to what you'd already built. After that, you'd have a partial complete carrier, and would just spend the remaining tonnage/time necessary to finish her.


The rework that I'm thinking of wouldn't be quite that extreme, but could involve changing the length and/or thickness of the belt armor, the size of the power plant, and the amount of fuel carried. If the refit rules were used, it seems like a 50% refit.


Quoted

Depends on what you're modifying them for, and what point has been reached in their construction. Fairly major arrangement changes shortly after keellaying, for instance, shouldn't require hardly any additional work at all - but after launching anything more than, say, AA armament changes are going to require some serious elbow grease.


Well, a change that comes down shortly after keel-laying might not result in a lot of rework, but it might involve a period of waiting while new parts are ordered to replace ones that were on order but now are no longer needed. Later on in the process, and you'd probably be effectively refitting the ship, just a ship that hasn't been used yet.

5

Thursday, November 16th 2006, 6:53pm

I think the time delay involved will be the main problem. Ordering more armour will take time to make, bring to the shipyard and install.

6

Tuesday, December 5th 2006, 8:08am

How about a change in shell weight in a BB and a subsequent reduction in misc weight to compinstate?
How late in a BB's construction would shell hoists be added?

7

Tuesday, December 5th 2006, 6:43pm

Not sure that its possible as it would require a redesign of the turret to accomodate longer shells, heavier shells, larger hoists, more powerful motors. Looking at historical precedent I'd say a change of 50kg or so would be doable, but not much more.

On modifying incomplete warships;

Quoted


2.2.5
Incomplete hulls may be converted as an expediency measure in cases of emergencies or when treaty
restrictions make it desirable to do so. The process is nothing more than a reconstruction of the hull that
exists, followed by normal construction of the remainder of the ship in its new form. Possible conversions
include aircraft carriers built from capital ships, cruisers, oilers, seaplane tenders, or cruise liners.
Battlecruisers might be converted to battleships and vice-versa.
To convert the hull, first reconstruct the incomplete hull as described in 2.2.4. Your end-product will be an
incomplete hull of the type of ship you now wish to complete.
To then complete the hull, simply build in materials equal to the light displacement of the completed ship,
minus the light displacement of the incomplete hull. The minimum time to complete is equal to the ship’s
construction time from scratch, minus the length of time spent building the ship’s hull in its old form.
It is reasonable for a player to spend an extra one to six months just planning the conversion, before
undertaking the reconstruction. However, this is left as an option for players with a sense for realism.
Example: An opportunistic signatory of the Treaty has an incomplete battleship hull that will have to be
scrapped if not completed as an aircraft carrier. The battleship’s light displacement was to be 31,000 tons,
and would have taken 40 months to complete. However, she is currently only 25% complete - 10 months of
construction and 7,750 tons of materials so far.
Reconstructing the hull will take 75% of that - 7.5 months, and 5,812.5 tons. The navy now has an
incomplete aircraft carrier hull, with 10 months of construction and 7,750 tons of materials put into her.
As a carrier, the ship will have a light displacement of 25,000 tons and would take 34 months to build from
scratch. Since the reconstructed hull has seen 10 months of construction and 7,750 tons of construction, she
will require just 24 months and 17,250 tons of material to complete.
In total, however, the construction, reconstruction and completion of the ship has taken 41.5 months and
30,812.5 tons of materials.

8

Wednesday, December 6th 2006, 7:25am

I only ask because it seems quite a few BB designs sport the standard SS rated 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells. Given the appearance of several designs sporting heavier shells it got me searching out of curiousity.

After a quick search it turns out Italian and South African designs have had their shell weights modified, but it seems quite a few of us overlooked that option.

9

Wednesday, December 6th 2006, 9:52am

Modifying the shell weights does have quite a large impact on the ship, more so than just increased weight of magazine, increased size of magazine. The turret machinery also weighs more and this is mounted high up...

Looking at the Colorados. They originally had 2110lb shells. They were then given 2240lb shells in the 30s. They could not carry the 2700lb shell due to it being to large and heavy.

Similar with the Nelsons. They were given 2048lb shells. It was then planned in the early 30s to give them 2250lb shells, which was never done due to insufficient funds.

As such I'd say that increasing your shell weights to about 1800lb from the default 1678lb would be possible - if you think it's worth it.