WesWorld

As the country im playing is not the biggest or strongest I have a qestion for you.
What will you do in my place.
How to defend my coast and shiping lines. Poland had a decend merchant fleet.

So how to protect it with its modest capability?Some form of asimetric warfare, heavy coastal defences and CLBB.What do you think?

I all ready have a rought skcech of what to do but mayby you guys have better ideas that me.

Regards

Easy, who do you fear the least out of Germany, Russia, Nordmark. Get friendly with the answer. Think an alliance value fleet, adopt their weapons doctrine - try to fit in. Plan for Baltic ops only, lean towards small expendable rather than fleet in being big ships.

Cheers,

Forming freindly relations with the various smaller nations in the region wouldn't hurt either, ie Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Hungary and Romania.

If you can't beat the big boys, gather a posse...

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If you can't beat the big boys, gather a posse...

Hmm, I have this mental image of Thelma and Louise as Poland, and friends hold hands going over the cliff...

Cheers,

Quoted

Originally posted by alt_naval
Easy, who do you fear the least out of Germany, Russia, Nordmark. Get friendly with the answer.

That is the way im going right now same as in history,so france and russia(same player) then again antagonaizing Germany is a big nono.
In Wesworld poland is Nordmark's client state but I know from history that an ally on the other side of sea is not to good(what did it to poland to have France and England as an ally in 1939).My policy make friends with everybody but Si vis Pacem, Para bellum(if you want Peace, prepare for War in latin).
So ill bild a fleet that is difrent

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Originally posted by alt_naval
Think an alliance value fleet, adopt their weapons doctrine - try to fit in.

That mean buying they ships and weapons that for me makes gameplaying less interesting for everybody
You may as well give poland to Earl, Hrolf or AdmKuznetsov for that matter.

No offence

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Forming freindly relations with the various smaller nations in the region wouldn't hurt either, ie Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Hungary and Romania.

If you can't beat the big boys, gather a posse...

(evil lougth)Im the 4#.power in the regin those small county like Lithuania Lotwa Estonia and Chechslovakia(measly 15million people) better make friands with me not the other way around.Austria i have no border with Romania nawer made any problem with poland.As for the Hungary thers a saing "Polak Wegier dwa bratanki i do szabli i do szklanki"
(rougly translats to: polish and hungarian are like family they drink together they fight together)so no prablem with them.

That sead what kind of a navy shood i bild?


PS sorry for the speling my english bad

Greece uses US weapons but they are built in Greece - CanisD isn't involved in the process. I've followed this from a historical line. I'd probably expect Greece could build upto 6" guns domestically, licensed versions of US weapons. I wouldn't expect you to build your ships in Nordmark (unless it was bigger than you could handle). Skoda could be an alternative source.

Re alliance, Nordmark is the natural choice, siding with Russia/France will only upset Germany. If France has Russia as a partner then they don't need any of the small eastern Europe powers. You'd be on your own, at the mercy of what ever Russia and Germany decide to do.

Cheers,

Navy wise I don't think your too far off the mark. I'd build lots of smaller expendable CL's, DD's, torpedo boats and "unlimited type" vessels.

Mine warfare is also a poor mans defence, kinda like playing the trap in hockey, not too spectacular but works none the less.

As for alliances, anyone of them would make sence. Historically the French were supportive of the Poles and in the Wesworld they are allied to the Russians which makes dealing with them abit easier. Germany would be keen on keeping Poland out of the clutches of Russia and Nordmark would be keen on keeping Poland away from Germany.

Its a catch 22, which alliance is the least threatening as your enemy and the most threatening to a potential enemy?

Perhaps the best way to survive is to make nice with all three and let them worry about each other.

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Think an alliance value fleet...lean towards small expendable rather than fleet in being big ships.

This came up in a discussion BigRich and I had over my battleship programme. You'll want to have one (or two) "major" Capital Ships, not just for the prestige but also to be able to have some pull in an alliance. If all you have are DDs and MTBs, you'll have to go with the flow, but if you can contribute to the battleline, you have more say...

For a "future fleet goal", I'd suggest a "core" of two 30,000-35,000 ton capital ships. The rest of the fleet should be CLs and down; carriers and heavy cruisers are not particulary suited to Poland's needs IMHO. Lots of MTBs and minelayers...

As for an alliance, as pointed out Nordmark seems the most obvious choice. France already has an alliance with Russia, and doesn't share a border. Russia and Germany aren't likely to be too interested in allying with a country that some (at least) see as usurping what should belong to the father/motherland. Nordmark, being straight across the Baltic and more-or-less "neutral" otherwise, seems a good fit.

Interesting you think in the same way as I do.
I allready writen an small article on the subiect but wanted to find out what do you think befote posting

As for the battleline no way,as much that I liked to bild a Battleship or Battlecruiser is just not posible, with my infrastucture id nead 10year to get a modern BB in the water and that with devoiting all factory output on just one ship.
Buying one is the same problem i dont have a way pay for it 32000t is my whole 2 years warships material production
I had a thot about finishing Grafspee as danzig is in my control but that may be un realistic and it 12 years that the unfiished hull just sits around Danzig by now it wose scrapt 5 time over.
I code post some story that it wose decided by the polish goverment(Pilsudzki wos a megalomaniak) to finnish the ship and how the work procided slowly for 10years and that is now closing the finish.
It wode fit in nacely with my defence concept.

BC Grafspee in daznig after the war [you can see the bilding in the back ground one of Gdansk(Danzig) land marks]
And it not that unbeliveble as poland did bild a modern port in a vilige Gdynia in the interwar preriod so all that labor and resorces can go on the ship.

That monster sailing under polish flag..hmm Battlecruiser (Druls)

Marek,

My first comment would be that with four factories, you don't really have the industry necessary to support a capital ship program. Nor do you have the infrastructure necessary to build or maintain a capital ship (class three or larger drydock and slipway). So my first suggestion is to stick to smaller vessels that you can build and maintain with the infrastructure you already have.

I'd guess that your main missions are:

-protecting merchant shipping

-preventing raids and landings on your coast

The merchant protection job is best left to a few multi-purpose sloops (such as the later RN Hunt types) and more ASW-oriented corvettes. Perhaps a number of small submarine-chasers such as India's 200 t launches. Putting torpedos on the sloops is a good deterrent but don't put too much effort into fighting off enemy warships - if the Germans, Nordmarchians, Russians, Danes, or French want to crush your convoy, they have the numbers with which to do it.

The coast protection job - as suggested, minelayers, MTBs, and MGBs (to fight off the other guy's MTBs). Monitors probably aren't much good, there's nowhere for them to really hide, and they'll be too slow to escape a capital ship.

If you're going to build a heavy anti-surface force, I'd be thinking at most about a core group of large destroyers and maybe a couple of light cruisers. Some of the new Italian "destroyers" in the 2600 t range could be good examples: fast, better armed than most destroyers, and with a torpedo armament that will make any enemy cruiser/battleship captain quesy.

Oh, and pardon my ignorance of Polish geography, but would there be a mission for river gunboats and small river monitors to control your internal rivers against foreign invaders?

Marek,

given your limited resources I´d focus on small ships given the roles your navy need to fulfil.

A pair of small CLs (<6000ts) to serves as fleet flagships and a couple of destroyers in the 1500ts range will offer you at least some punch and good training capabilities (smaller ships are less good for that purpose and a highly trained core of officers and men might help you more than an additional or bigger ship).

Focus on mine warfare and relatively small subs. Both weapons are very useful for the Baltic on which I´d focus my strength. Purpose build minelayers and several douzand mine sweepers which can also serve as patrol boats or light escorts (think of 500ts units with ~2x10cm, 2x4cm, 20-50ts misc weight and about 25kn of speed) should provide you with the capabilities to defend your coasts for some time.

Get allied with a decent power. In your case there are only two possible allies around: Nordmark (as already mentioned) and Great Britain. Nordmark seems to be the obvious choice as you already had some contact with them. However, Great Britain might also be interesting even if there´s more water between you and the Empire´s homelands. Historically the British had some interest in the Baltic and with an ally there who provides a base they might detach a squadron to compensate your own navy´s lack of medium to large sized units. Wouldn´t make you a puppet state as it allows you to focus on your own things but could also cause a raised eyebrow in Nordmark as Nordmark and GB are not entirely friendly to each other, IIRC (long time rivals regarding the control of the North Sea etc.).

Anyway, whatever you choose keep in mind those allies probably have other allies as well and think of the impact this could have on your politics etc...

Just my 0,02€.

HoOmAn

Confidential

As Poland can not outbild its neybours. Its hase too look for aways to protect itself from the sea.
Poland is forming its plan around Torpedo bouts and light fast forces rather that Coustal Battleships.
A force of (referd later as the Core)Two torpedo armed light cruisers and ten destroyers also armed with
torpedos and ten large Torpedo bouts, will make the core of the fleet attacking enemy(how ever they might be)
naval heavy units in night torpedo attacks as it is demonsterted that a day torpedo attack meats large rezistance in day light.
Large numer of smaller Torpedo bouts is to complimet the Core and attack all target of oportunity
,it will not move outside land aviation aircover.
Fleet submarine force is to act as fovard scouts and mining enemy ports and attacking shiping lines.
Large numer of mineleyer will also reduce the enemy ability to move its assets freely.
A Force of dedicated ASW ships will protect the hourbors and teritoryal woters it will not move outside land aviation aircover.
Polish Fleet Air Arm primery mission is too proved air cover for the fleet units and suplementing the Sub in the scouting and ASW role.
Its secondary role is attacking surfice unit,it is now belived that its very qestionary
that aircrafts have enouth offencive capability to do so.
However future Dive bomders and torpedo carring planes may change that.
Gdansk bay are to be made a safehaven for polish units by incresing the fortifications of
"Hel Defended Region" and in event of war ectensive minefilds.
Our Small Battleships are a vital part of that plan there for are to remain in service or be replace by newer weasels.

Ship bild for the navy will sacrefice range, altilery armament and armour in favor off Torpedo armament,
reacent work from Italys Conte de Rosso sopport our position as it show both the potecial of torpedos and the
inabilyti to conteract it by Underwater protection.

The Core ships will have a range alloving them to opperate outside the teritorial waters and attack enemy units in the whole baltic basin.
They will employ speed that will make it posible to conduct a attack and manouwer tacticks
,their heavy AA armamet will be used to repell any air attacks.
The protection of shiping lines is a task that polish navy is in no power too do.
As our constantly growing merchant fleet ,sailing all the world oceans can simply cannot in be protected in any satisfaing level
by our modest resorces, beside any enemy can simply block the wayout of the baltic by hand full of ships.

Its is also recommendet that the we begin bilding a number of conciled airstrips with in event of war will
be used as main staging points for our aviation as knowed airstrips are most likely be targeted first by enemy airforce as destroying
ground infrastucture(fuel storage, repair workshops ect...) renders the plane all but useless.

To acomplish this plan poland must develope it self or buy long range torpedos,
dive bombers and torpedo carriering planes with arial torpedos.
As poland's long range torpedos are outdeted and we have non of the later.

In all polish navy is facing wery dificult task. Our late Commander-in-chief had little understanding,
old plans where nothing more that buying new ships each one bigger faster stronger
complety forgeting where they are going to be used and what treats they going to face,like buying Ocean going subs for baltic.

Very interesting post even thought I sense a little bit of hindsight now and then while reading it. ;o)

Never mind, it happens to all of uns in WesWorld. ..

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Ships built for the navy will sacrifice range, artillery armament and armour in favor of Torpedo armament,
recent work from Italy's Conte de Rosso support our position as it shows both the potencial of torpedoes and the
inability to counteract it by Underwater protection.

I'd just like to point out that those Reports are "confidential" and so are not for in-player use. Italy could always become a consultant.

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Originally posted by Red Admiral

I'd just like to point out that those Reports are "confidential" and so are not for in-player use.

As is this
Think spynetwork

Ok ill wont do it agein but, I wonted to make it look more intresting and reaserched ,as not to make it look as i pulled out of thin air.

The Italian report is confidential; much of the data is not. A separate Polish research project could still come to the same conclusions as the Italian report. I believe the Russian position on the Baltic is public knowledge too.

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Oh, and pardon my ignorance of Polish geography, but would there be a mission for river gunboats and small river monitors to control your internal rivers against foreign invaders?

That is one thing I forgot about when setting up the NPC infrastructure; Poland probably has a Type 0 slip and drydock on the Vistula and/or the Oder...

As far as "capital ships" vs building capacity, if you do "consult" with Italy, RA has some very interesting pocket BBs in the 18,000-ton range. ;-)