WesWorld

I need some clarification here.

Several nations have Antarctic claims. Some overlap.

Obviously, in-game/in-character, a nation will consider itself to have jurisdiction over that claim.

Out-of-character, though - are Antarctic claims treated as being under the control of those players, like the rest of their nations and colonies? Or is it a no-man's-land that anybody can decide to have their nation involved in (subject to in-character complications/coordination)?

Thanks...

My personal opinion is that the areas claimed solely by one and only one power are effectively treated as colonies under that player's control, and any extra-national involvement is best handled by consultation with and approval by that country's player. When it comes to overlapping claims, I'd say the claimants have mutual rights to do what they wish, provided that any storylines don't conflict with the others.

I'm open to modifying this opinion, but only if all of the players involved in Antarctica agree.

For reference, here's a helpful map of the current state of Antarctic claims.

A convenient color-legend for that map might help.

I'll add one later tonight.

Edit: updated the image.

Dobutless like OTL there are overlapping claims etc. I must admit I don't think much about Antarctica. Have we got any international treaties regarding exploitation etc?

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Dobutless like OTL there are overlapping claims etc. I must admit I don't think much about Antarctica. Have we got any international treaties regarding exploitation etc?

We tried to set one up for all of the involved powers, but nobody seemed interested in participating.

There are only two international treaties I know of regarding Antarctica: one between the Philippines and Australia, and the agreement amongst FAR to recognize each others claims and participate in a unified Antarctic program (ARC).

Those claims where added quite some time into the SIM and they were made by those players then in charge without justification or treaty as back-up. Some simply marked their claims on the map and said "this is mine". As those claims were never really challanged, they became some kind of accepted property. However, as I said earlier, there is no official treaty and not all may accept the claims as fixed for all times.

If a claiming power is seriously challenged, there is no legal back-up and the Antarctica probably offers one of the last opportunities for conflict in WesWorld.

This info is a start, thanks. Other folks?

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
This info is a start, thanks. Other folks?

To the best of my knowledge, Germany never became involved in the "Scramble for Antarctica"; Yugoslavia has no interests there. The Philippines was in the Antarctic exploration business but has resigned its claims in favor of Australia under the provisions of the Canberra Protocol.

Nordmark's previous governments may well have had actual plans for Antarctica, but the current one regards the place mostly as a bargaining chip for diplomatic negotiations elsewhere.

The Antartic claims were made before I started, so the Dutch have no claim there. Well, unless I wanted to go back to the age of Imperialism to base my claims, but that would just annoy the heck out of SAE and Australia.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
but that would just annoy the heck out of SAE and Australia.

And your point is?

My thinking is simple, if I set foot on any claims made by others I'm looking for trouble and how vigorously those claims are protected will dictate the level of trouble I get into.

Joint claims would be a crap shoot, could be a sore point or could be a nice place to co-operate with another nation with reguards to exploration.

Wes, Brock, Stephen - please clarify whether your are speaking as players or moderators. I want the official Wesworld position on this subject.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Wes, Brock, Stephen - please clarify whether your are speaking as players or moderators. I want the official Wesworld position on this subject.

My position as a moderator is the same as my position as a player. If a player nation went exploring an area claimed by another player nation against that player's wishes, as a moderator I'd view that very dimly.

In my view, one of Wesworld's greatest strengths is that the players are allowed to decide for themselves what to do within the scope of the rules. For instance, they are not forced to participate in a war that they do not wish their country to participate in. This has traditionally been mixed by the openness of the player base at large to work together (usually) in a collegial manner in order to get things done. It requires serious and more mature players, which is why I feel Wesworld has succeeded when similar groups like Navalism, who don't do things this way, go through half a dozen versions. That facet was one of the major factors which led me to join Wesworld even though I was repeatedly offered the chance to play in Navalism.

As a moderator, I do not support declaring Antarctica a "no man's land that anybody can decide to have their nation involved in" unless all the current players claiming territory agree unanimously to support that position. As a player, I do not think I want to support that position, and I'd ask people to either approach me in as an equal and script something, or leave me out of it.

As a moderator and player, I agree with Brock, even though its basically a claimed area I'd handle Antarctic claims as if they were owned by the respective nation.

If its a joint claim IMO it makes it even more improtant to script things out, it just doesn't seem fair for a third party to waltz in and help one of the claimants effectively help enforce their claim. That said if someone wants to script that between all three party's they are more than welcome to.

Like Brock I think the scripting aspect of this sim is the one reason why we haven't started a wesworld 2.0 yet, after nearly what, 11 years?

We always used the word "claim" instead of "possession". To me the word "claim" implies something that is not fixed, settled and done. It is merely a step towards something fixed. We just never did this second step for whatever reason (lack of interest, lack of active players, change od players, lack of time etc.).

Am I wrong?

IC, I certainly veiw my claim like a possession. I just assumed that despite not having a treaty reguarding Antarctica to treat it as though there was a gentlemans agreement. Its a potential point of conflict, therefor if one wants to tread on foreign claims they need to script it. That requires co-operation.

Thanks for the clarification.

No need for further discussion. I'll redirect my energies elsewhere.