WesWorld

Hey guys, I'm back.

Here's a new thread for discussing my newly designed Canadian ocean liners, MV Newfoundland and MV Labrador .
I based them off White Star Line's 1922 ocean liner RMS Homeric . They are about the same size (a bit bigger perhaps) but are diesel-powered with a 23-knot service speed, not bad for the cruise market I aim them for, as well as the occasional Altantic crossing.

Please evaluate my design and give me feedback.

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MV Newfoundland and MY Labrador, Canadian Express Ocean Liners.



My two new ocean liners MV Newfoundland and her sister ship MV Labrador are 35,500-ton beauties of the sea that will service the ports of Québec City, Canada and Southampton, England. They will also offer numerous cruises during the winter, when the St. Lawrence freezes over. Their intended service is 23 knots with a capability to make 26 knots. As far as appearance goes, these two ladies will be very special ships, sporting two tall funnels that make them instantly distinguishable, a black-painted hull and white superstructure. The funnels are painted red with white top bands, and the finishing touch: a beautifully round stern. Passenger capacity is intended to be a modest 1000 people, due in part to modern regulations of safety and comfort. This allows unprecedented luxury for all passengers onboard these two floating palaces.

Gross Tonnage: approx. 35,450 gross tons

Displacement: 28,766 t light; 29,420 t standard; 32,700 t normal; 35,324 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(795.32 ft / 770.00 ft) x 88.00 ft x (30.00 ft / 31.92 ft)
(242.41 m / 234.70 m) x 26.82 m x (9.14 m / 9.73 m)

Machinery: These ships are powered by a diesel-electric system. Diesel generators power two electric motors which in turn rotate the two propeller shafts. The total power output is 74,000 shp (37,000 hp per shaft) giving these ships a service speed of 23 knots with a maximum design speed of 26 knots. Design range is 8,000 nautical miles at a speed of 23 knots. Normal fuel capacity is 3,280 tons with a maximum capacity of 5,904 tons of diesel fuel.

Complement: about 600

Cost: £9.809 million / $39.236 million (1950)

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
• Machinery: 1,770 tons, 5.4 %
• Hull, Fittings & Equipment: 14,996 tons, 45.9 %
• Fuel & Stores: 3,934 tons, 12.0 %
• Miscellaneous Weights: 12,000 tons, 36.7 %
o Hull below water: 5,000 tons
o Hull above water: 3,500 tons
o On freeboard deck: 3,000 tons
o Above deck: 500 tons

Overall Survivability and Seakeeping Ability:
• Wartime Survivability (non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
o 8,996.4 lbs / 4,080.7 kg = 83.30 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.66 torpedoes
• Stability (unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
• Metacentric Height (G.M.): 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
• Roll Period: 15.4 seconds
• Steadiness – as gun platform (average = 50 %): 60 %
• Seaboat Quality (average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull Form Characteristics:
• Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and a round stern
• Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.563 / 0.572
• Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
• 'Natural speed' for length: 27.75 kts
• Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
• Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
• Bow Angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
• Stern Overhang: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
• Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 38.00 ft / 11.58 m, 34.75 ft / 10.59 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 34.75 ft / 10.59 m, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Average freeboard: 33.22 ft / 10.13 m

Ship Space, Strength and Comments:
• Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 47.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 244.9 %
• Waterplane Area: 47,870 square feet or 4,447 square meters
• Displacement Factor (displacement / loading): 210 %
• Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 895 kg/sq meter
• Hull Strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.45
- Longitudinal: 3.01
- Overall: 1.56
They have excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
They have excellent accommodation and workspace room
They are excellent seaboats, comfortable; they ride out heavy weather easily

Notes:
Overall depth of the hull is about 63.22 ft.
The depth, from keel to the lifeboat deck (2 decks above freeboard deck) is approximately 80 ft.
These two ships are the largest ships built for the Canadian merchant marine.

Miscellaneous weight breakdown: 12,000 tons
Cargo capacity – 2,000 tons
Passenger weights = 10,000 tons
• first-class = 4,500 tons
• second-class = 5,500 tons
First class passenger space = 10 tons/guest = 450 1st class
Second class = 10 tons/guest = 550 2nd class
Total passengers = 1000

Nice ships...
*grabs special spreadsheet*

- GRT would be... *throws numbers into spreadsheet*... 50240.
- Not 100% sure about my observation skills, but looking at the picture, I think that there would be a little bit more of the 12000 tons miscellaneous weights "above deck" than 500 tons.
- While this is not given in the SS notes and thus not mandatory, I personally like to stick to a higher figure for 1st class passengers than the 2nd class passengers in order to make a clear difference between the two classes. But that is how I work.

Thanks Rooijen10 for the info.

A quick question, how did you arrive at the 50,240 gross tonnage figure?

According to my research on the RMS Homeric (34,351 grt), and according to my dimensions, would assume that my ships would be a bit over 35,000 tons, which fits nicely with the 35,450 grt figure i came up with from my calcs.

Not to disprove your *special spreadsheet* but a 50,000 ton figure would require a ship bigger than the Olympics, even then closer to Imperator-size, and looking at the dimensions, seems a bit odd that the gross tonnage of my ships would be that high.

Just my opinion...

Also, I will rework the miscellaneous weight by puting, say perhaps, 1000 tons as "above deck" weight, put keeping the same total 12,000 tons miscellaneous weight.

Many thanks, RMSCANADA

If I read the spreadsheet correctly, it's something like this:

G = N+((((l*b*(c^(2/3)))/35)*f)/2.5)

G = GRT
N = Normal Displacement
l = length
b = beam
c = block coefficient
f = freeboard

IIRC, it is based on stuff given in the springstyle notes.

Got some keyboard space and the Springstyle notes now...


For a Cargo Ship (for those interested):

Quoted

To determine gross registered tonnage, make the following calculations:

1) Multiply "loading submergence" (listed below the weights table in the ship report) times ship's freeboard (listed under hull strength in the hull characteristics section.)

2) Add the result to normal displacement.

3) Multiply by 35, then divide the answer by 100. This is the gross registered tonnage for a typical cargo ship.

For and Ocean Liner:

Quoted

When you compute gross registered tonnage, add 10-20 percent - this allows for the extensive superstructures of liners.
Displacement + (freeboard x loading submergence) / 2.5 is a handy formula to use, and adds 14 percent to the standard cargo ship figure.

The gross registered tonnage of a liner should be at least equal to her displacement, typically about 20 percent more (the Normandie had a registered tonnage close to twice her displacement).

The baseline gross registered tonnage of a liner built in 1900 or earlier should be 15 tons per cabin passenger and 5 tons per steerage passenger. Multiply this by the same formula as above for ships built later than 1900.

... and the mentioned formula is "multiply figure by 1 plus (date - 1900) / 25."

Well, here are the differing figures I came up with:

1. Using the formula for the cargo ship (+14 percent), I came up with a gross tonnage figure of 35,131 .

2. Using the +20% rule for gross tonnage for liners, I come up with a figure of 39,240 .

*The above figure I believe is better than originally calculated...I estimated "around 40,000 tons" when starting the design*

3. When comparing Normandie's gross tonnage to her displacement (79,280 vs. 71,300 tons -- a factor of 12 percent), on my ships it comes out to 36,624.

--- If you average those three numbers, the figure comes out 36,998 tons , nearly 37,000 ---

Personally, I think that the second figure is the most correct estimation for the gross tonnage of my vessels. Looking at various liners, I came up with Gross Tonnage restricting criteria:

- Based on her dimensions, she must be larger than Homeric (34,351 gt) but cannot be larger than the Olympic (45,324 gt).
- The mean of those two numbers is 39,387 gt, being only 39,387-39,240 = 147 tons off from the second gross tonnage figure.

To conclude this issue, I think the best gross tonnage estimate we can make is "around 40,000".

Announcement: My tweaked version of my MV Newfoundland and MV Labrador. Gross Tonnage, after much work, has been estimated at 40,000.
Currently, I am working on the cabin arrangements for the passengers--will post shortly, as soon as they are finished. Here is the redesign for you guys to evaluate.

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MV Newfoundland and MY Labrador, Canadian Express Ocean Liners



*above: RMS Homeric, White Star Line's 35,000 ton ocean liner.

Gross Tonnage: approx. 40,000

Displacement: 28,766 t light; 29,420 t standard; 32,700 t normal; 35,324 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(795.32 ft / 770.00 ft) x 88.00 ft x (30.00 ft / 31.92 ft)
(242.41 m / 234.70 m) x 26.82 m x (9.14 m / 9.73 m)

Machinery: These ships are powered by a diesel-electric system. Diesel generators power two electric motors which in turn rotate the two propeller shafts.
The total power output is 74,000 shp (37,000 hp per shaft) giving these ships a service speed of 23 knots with a maximum design speed of 26 knots.
Design range is 8,000 nautical miles at a speed of 23 knots. Normal fuel capacity is 3,280 tons with a maximum capacity of 5,904 tons of diesel fuel.

Complement: about 600

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
• Machinery: 1,770 tons, 5.4 %
• Hull, Fittings & Equipment: 14,996 tons, 45.9 %
• Fuel & Stores: 3,934 tons, 12.0 %
• Miscellaneous Weights: 12,000 tons, 36.7 %
o Hull below water: 5,000 tons
o Hull above water: 3,000 tons
o On freeboard deck: 3,000 tons
o Above deck: 1000 tons

Overall Survivability and Seakeeping Ability:
• Wartime Survivability (non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
o 9,265.0 lbs / 4,202.6 kg = 85.79 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.69 torpedoes
• Stability (unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
• Metacentric Height (G.M.): 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
• Roll Period: 15.5 seconds
• Steadiness – as gun platform (average = 50 %): 60 %
• Seaboat Quality (average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull Form Characteristics:
• Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and a round stern
• Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.563 / 0.572
• Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
• 'Natural speed' for length: 27.75 kts
• Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
• Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
• Bow Angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
• Stern Overhang: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
• Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 38.00 ft / 11.58 m, 34.75 ft / 10.59 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 34.75 ft / 10.59 m, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Average freeboard: 33.22 ft / 10.13 m

Ship Space, Strength and Comments:
• Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 45.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 244.9 %
• Waterplane Area: 47,870 square feet or 4,447 square meters
• Displacement Factor (displacement / loading): 210 %
• Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 895 kg/sq meter
• Hull Strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.45
- Longitudinal: 3.01
- Overall: 1.56
They have excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
They have excellent accommodation and workspace room
They are excellent seaboats, comfortable; they ride out heavy weather easily

Notes:
Overall depth of the hull is about 63.22 ft.
The depth, from keel to the lifeboat deck (2 decks above freeboard deck) is approximately 80 ft.
These two ships are the largest ships built for the Canadian merchant marine.

Miscellaneous weight breakdown: 12,000 tons
Cargo capacity – 2,000 tons
Passenger weights = 10,000 tons
• first-class = 4,500 tons
• second-class = 5,500 tons
First class passengers = 10 tons/guest = 450 1st class
Second class passengers = 10 tons/guest = 550 2nd class
Total passengers = 1000

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Also, a couple questions for those evaluating...
1. How many decks (practical) could I put on these liners?
2. Any ideas for public rooms? Anything to make them stand out from the competition?
3. How many lifeboats should I put?

*Anything else you guys want to add concerning my ships is welcome...