WesWorld

I didn't see a consensus on laying down a replacement for MN Courbet. I'd like to raise the question of the legalities, and from the outcome, lay down 1 or two of the following:

France class battleship, laid down 1924

Length, 235.0 m x Beam, 33.0 m x Depth, 9.6 m
43535 tonnes normal displacement (40141 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 12 x 38.1-cm (3 x 4; 1 superfiring)
Secondary battery: 14 x 12.0-cm (7 x 2)
AA battery: 32 x 4.0-cm

Weight of broadside: 9568 kg

Main belt, 36.0 cm @ 15 Degrees; ends unarmored
Torpedo bulkhead, 3.0 cm
Armor deck, average 14.0 cm
Conning tower, 14.0 cm

Battery armor:
Main, 40.0 cm / secondary, 2.5 cm
AA, 2.5 cm shields

Aircraft - 4 Seaplanes, 2 catapults

or

Fleet Command Bridge

Maximum speed for 78113 shaft kw = 27.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 10000 nm / 15 knots

Typical complement: 1507-1959


Estimated cost, $49.529 million (£12.382 million)

Remarks:

Relative extent of belt armor, 90 percent of 'typical' coverage.

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Ship is roomy, with superior accommodation and working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 2631 tonnes = 6 pct
Armor, total ..................... 14155 tonnes = 33 pct

Belt 3399 tonnes = 8 pct
Torpedo bulkhead 689 tonnes = 2 pct
Deck 5906 tonnes = 14 pct
C.T. 148 tonnes = 0 pct
Armament 4014 tonnes = 9 pct

Machinery ........................ 3448 tonnes = 8 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 17181 tonnes = 39 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 6019 tonnes = 14 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 100 tonnes = 0 pct
-----
43535 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 1.8 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 37516 tonnes
Standard displacement: 40141 tonnes
Normal service: 43535 tonnes
Full load: 46076 tonnes

Loading submergence 5428 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.03

Shellfire needed to sink: 19451 kg = 25.4 x 38.1-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 5.8
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 70 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.64

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.10

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.58
Sharpness coefficient: 0.40
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 6.70
'Natural speed' for length = 27.8 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 48 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 90 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 142 percent


Displacement factor: 104 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.99
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 1063 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.10
(for 5.90 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment -0.30 m)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

770.80 x 108.24 x 31.49; 19.35 -- Dimensions
0.58 -- Block coefficient
1924 -- Year laid down
27.00 / 10000 / 15.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
100 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
12 x 15.00; 3; 1 -- Main battery; turrets; superfiring
:
14 x 4.72; 7 -- Secondary battery; turrets
:
32 x 1.57 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
14.17 / 0.00 / 0.00 / 1.18; 90 -- Belt armor; relative extent
5.51 / 5.51 -- Deck / CT
15.75 / 0.98 / 0.98 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I will also lay down 6 Roland class light cruisers. They're for long-range patrol, but they're speedy and hit hard:

Roland class, French Light cruiser laid down 1924

Displacement:
3,904 t light; 4,086 t standard; 4,843 t normal; 5,430 t full load
Loading submergence 399 tons/feet

Dimensions:
524.93 ft x 49.21 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
160.00 m x 15.00 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret (A-2, B-3, X-3)
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns
8 - 1.57" / 40 mm AA guns
Weight of broadside 1,023 lbs / 464 kg
8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Main turrets 0.98" / 25 mm, 2nd gun shields 0.98" / 25 mm
AA gun shields 0.98" / 25 mm
Conning tower 0.98" / 25 mm

Aircraft: 1 Seaplane, 1 Catapult

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 72,502 shp / 54,086 Kw = 34.50 kts
Range 13,600nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
290 - 377

Cost:
£1.781 million / $7.124 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 128 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 94 tons, 1.9 %
Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Armament: 88 tons, 1.8 %, Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.1 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,373 tons, 49.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,269 tons, 26.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 940 tons, 19.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 0.8 %

Metacentric height 3.1

Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.41
Shellfire needed to sink: 1,163 lbs / 528 Kg = 11.3 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 70 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.48
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.400
Sharpness coefficient: 0.29
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 9.49
'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim: 58
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 179.2 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 131.3 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 82 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.50
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs / square foot or 239 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 0.81
(for 18.11 ft / 5.52 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 5.01 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.52

Interesting layout, I suppose they will have a similar problem as the U.S. Pensacola class which had a narrow hull width around A turret meaning it would mount a twin super emposed by a triple.

I think the treaty pretty clearly says you can lay down a replacement immediately, so I see no reason not to proceed with the France.

The design itself is good; are we assuming that angled armor plating weighs the same amount as non-angled plating?

There will be at least one, to replace MN France, since MN France ran onto a rock in August 1922. The question is replacing MN Courbet. She was laid down in 1910, so she may be replaced before the end of the building holiday (by Part 3, Chapter A. Article VI.), but it is not clear from that section if I can replace MN Courbet at a time of my choosing.

As to the inclined belt, previous design concepts with inclined belts didn't add misc weight (see the designs for Iowa and South Dakota that come in Rick Robinson's Springstyle download) and by Hoo's suggested combat rules, an inclined belt has no advantage.

And to Wes -

That's why I put:

8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret (A-2, B-3, X-3)

Again, my understanding of the treaty is that replacement can take place at any time.