LordArpad
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 6
(4/14/03 12:21:33 pm)
Iberia light cruisers draft I
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Hi folks hereis what I came up with. Comments welcome!
Thanks
Bernhard
Protected/Light Cruisers
Arriba Class 1898 – 5 ships 1898-99
Displacement:
3,721 t light; 3,865 t standard; 4,394 t normal; 4,800 t full load
Loading submergence 272 tons/feet
Dimensions:
350.00 ft x 46.50 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
3 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (3 Main turrets x 1 guns)
6 - 3.92 " (100 mm)
Secondary guns mounted low & subject to being washed down in a seaway
6 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
QF guns mounted low & subject to being washed down in a seaway
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 666 lbs (302 kg)
3 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 2.00 ", upper belt 2.00 ", end belts 0.50 ", belts cover 130 % of normal area
Main turrets 4.00 ", 2nd casemates 2.00 ", QF casemates 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.50 ", Conning tower 6.00 "
Machinery:
8,869 ihp steam reciprocating engines, coal fired boilers = 19.50 kts, range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
269 - 350
Cost:
£0.400 million / $1.602 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 83 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 876 tons, 19.9 %
Belts: 429 tons, 9.8 %, Armament: 148 tons, 3.4 %, Armour Deck: 265 tons, 6.0 %
Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.8 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,430 tons, 32.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,332 tons, 30.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 673 tons, 15.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 2.3
Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.23
Shellfire needed to sink: 2,707 lbs = 18.0 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.7
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 87 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.37
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.73
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.35
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.53
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 128.6 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 91.1 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 100 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.92
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 77 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.15
(for 13.50 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 0.65 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00
La Bamba Class 1901 – 5 ships 1901-1902
Displacement:
3,815 t light; 3,953 t standard; 4,542 t normal; 4,995 t full load
Loading submergence 296 tons/feet
Dimensions:
345.00 ft x 51.20 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
2 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (2 Main turrets x 1 guns)
8 - 3.92 " (100 mm)
Secondary guns mounted low & subject to being washed down in a seaway
6 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 576 lbs (261 kg)
2 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 2.00 ", upper belt 2.00 ", end belts 0.50 ", belts cover 132 % of normal area
Main turrets 5.00 ", 2nd casemates 2.00 ", QF gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.50 ", Conning tower 6.00 "
Machinery:
10,085 ihp steam reciprocating engines, coal fired boilers = 20.00 kts, range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
276 - 359
Cost:
£0.411 million / $1.644 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 72 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 897 tons, 19.7 %
Belts: 447 tons, 9.8 %, Armament: 128 tons, 2.8 %, Armour Deck: 287 tons, 6.3 %
Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.8 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,551 tons, 34.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,295 tons, 28.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 728 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 3.0
Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.33
Shellfire needed to sink: 2,844 lbs = 18.9 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.7
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 81 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.19
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.44
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.36
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.37
'Natural speed' for length: 18.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim: 56
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 128.1 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 85.7 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 99 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.94
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 76 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.87
(for 12.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -0.93 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00
Cunctador Class 1904 – 8 ships 1904-1906
Cunctador, Iberia Protected Cruiser laid down 1904
Displacement:
4,474 t light; 4,619 t standard; 5,221 t normal; 5,681 t full load
Loading submergence 378 tons/feet
Dimensions:
470.00 ft x 48.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
2 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (2 Main turrets x 1 guns)
6 - 3.92 " (100 mm)
Secondary guns mounted low & subject to being washed down in a seaway
2 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 493 lbs (224 kg)
2 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 3.00 ", upper belt 2.00 ", end belts 0.50 ", belts cover 124 % of normal area
Main turrets 5.00 ", 2nd casemates 2.00 ", QF gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.80 ", Conning tower 6.00 "
Machinery:
19,496 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 24.00 kts, range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
307 - 399
Cost:
£0.456 million / $1.826 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 62 tons, 1.2 %
Armour: 1,267 tons, 24.3 %
Belts: 668 tons, 12.8 %, Armament: 120 tons, 2.3 %, Armour Deck: 440 tons, 8.4 %
Conning Tower: 39 tons, 0.7 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,772 tons, 33.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,373 tons, 26.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 747 tons, 14.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 2.8
Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.34
Shellfire needed to sink: 3,098 lbs = 20.6 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.8
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 75 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.18
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.34
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.28
'Natural speed' for length: 21.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim: 56
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 123.2 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 98.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 98 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.84
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 63 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 0.83
(for 12.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -1.30 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.83
Santa Juana Class 1909 – 8 ships 1909-11
Displacement:
4,802 t light; 4,982 t standard; 5,443 t normal; 5,790 t full load
Loading submergence 394 tons/feet
Dimensions:
480.00 ft x 49.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
4 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (4 Main turrets x 1 guns)
8 - 3.92 " (100 mm)
Secondary guns mounted low & subject to being washed down in a seaway
2 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 854 lbs (388 kg)
2 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 3.00 ", upper belt 2.00 ", end belts 0.50 ", belts cover 124 % of normal area
Main turrets 5.00 ", 2nd casemates 2.00 ", QF gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.80 ", Conning tower 6.00 "
Machinery:
31,326 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 27.00 kts, range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
316 - 411
Cost:
£0.457 million / $1.828 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 107 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 1,412 tons, 25.9 %
Belts: 687 tons, 12.6 %, Armament: 226 tons, 4.2 %, Armour Deck: 459 tons, 8.4 %
Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.7 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,424 tons, 26.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,860 tons, 34.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 641 tons, 11.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 2.4
Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.20
Shellfire needed to sink: 5,210 lbs = 34.6 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.0
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 56 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.27
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.00
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.34
'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim: 56
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 103.5 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 99.6 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 106 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.02
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 82 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.00
(for 12.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -1.41 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00
Angola Class 1914 – 12 ships 1914-16
Displacement:
5,533 t light; 5,745 t standard; 6,137 t normal; 6,427 t full load
Loading submergence 444 tons/feet
Dimensions:
510.00 ft x 52.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
7 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (7 Main turrets x 1 guns)
2 - 2.24 " (57 mm) AA
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 1,064 lbs (483 kg)
2 - 19 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 3.00 ", upper belt 2.00 ", end belts 0.50 ", belts cover 110 % of normal area
Main turrets 5.00 ", AA gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.80 ", Conning tower 6.00 "
Machinery:
33,016 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 27.00 kts, range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
346 - 450
Cost:
£0.615 million / $2.461 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 133 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 1,642 tons, 26.8 %
Belts: 660 tons, 10.7 %, Armament: 422 tons, 6.9 %, Armour Deck: 517 tons, 8.4 %
Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.7 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,272 tons, 20.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,186 tons, 35.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 604 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 4.9 %
Metacentric height 1.9
Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.01
Shellfire needed to sink: 6,847 lbs = 45.5 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 84 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.61
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.50
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.52
'Natural speed' for length: 22.58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim: 56
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 92.4 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 153.9 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 111 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.86
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 80 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.28
(for 18.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 4.27 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.89
Santiago de Cuba Class – 8 ships 1917-1921
Displacement:
8,300 t light; 8,585 t standard; 9,040 t normal; 9,368 t full load
Loading submergence 654 tons/feet
Dimensions:
620.00 ft x 63.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
8 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (4 Main turrets x 2 guns, 2 superfiring turrets)
Aft turrets separated by engine room
8 - 2.24 " (57 mm) AA
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 1,248 lbs (567 kg)
8 - 19 " above water torpedoes
Armour:
Belt 3.00 ", upper belt 2.00 ", end belts 0.50 ", belts cover 120 % of normal area
Main turrets 5.00 ", AA gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.80 ", Conning tower 6.00 "
Machinery:
67,374 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 31.00 kts, range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
463 - 602
Cost:
£1.395 million / $5.581 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 156 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 2,249 tons, 24.9 %
Belts: 931 tons, 10.3 %, Armament: 501 tons, 5.5 %, Armour Deck: 762 tons, 8.4 %
Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.6 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,470 tons, 27.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,125 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 740 tons, 8.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.3 %
Metacentric height 3.1
Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.11
Shellfire needed to sink: 8,164 lbs = 54.3 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.4
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 72 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.32
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.29
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 9.10
'Natural speed' for length: 24.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim: 56
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 105.8 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 166.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 103 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.77
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 83 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 0.93
(for 20.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 5.16 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.78
Scout Cruisers
Matador Class 1894 – 5 ships 1894 - 1895
Displacement:
2,070 t light; 2,136 t standard; 2,404 t normal; 2,608 t full load
Loading submergence 161 tons/feet
Dimensions:
267.00 ft x 36.00 ft x 19.45 ft (normal load)
Armament:
2 - 3.92 " (100 mm) (2 Main turrets x 1 guns)
4 - 3.92 " (100 mm)
Secondary guns mounted low & subject to being washed down in a seaway
6 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
Weight of broadside 214 lbs (97 kg)
3 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Main turrets 3.00 ", 2nd casemates 3.00 ", QF gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.20 ", Conning tower 2.00 "
Machinery:
7,486 ihp steam reciprocating engines, coal fired boilers = 20.00 kts, range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
171 - 223
Cost:
£0.256 million / $1.025 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 27 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 193 tons, 8.0 %
Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Armament: 61 tons, 2.5 %, Armour Deck: 125 tons, 5.2 %
Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.3 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,153 tons, 48.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 697 tons, 29.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 334 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 1.9
Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.38
Shellfire needed to sink: 778 lbs = 25.8 x 3.9 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 83 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.26
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.65
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.35
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.09
'Natural speed' for length: 16.34 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 183.9 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 81.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 80 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.88
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 61 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 3.11
(for 13.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 1.61 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00
Picador Class 1899 – 6 ships 1899-1900
Displacement:
2,381 t light; 2,453 t standard; 2,713 t normal; 2,911 t full load
Loading submergence 179 tons/feet
Dimensions:
279.00 ft x 38.30 ft x 19.75 ft (normal load)
Armament:
2 - 3.92 " (100 mm) (2 Main turrets x 1 guns)
4 - 3.92 " (100 mm)
Secondary guns mounted low & subject to being washed down in a seaway
6 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
Weight of broadside 214 lbs (97 kg)
3 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Main turrets 3.00 ", 2nd casemates 3.00 ", QF gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.20 ", Conning tower 2.00 "
Machinery:
10,121 ihp steam reciprocating engines, coal fired boilers = 21.25 kts, range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
187 - 244
Cost:
£0.303 million / $1.210 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 27 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 208 tons, 7.7 %
Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Armament: 61 tons, 2.2 %, Armour Deck: 139 tons, 5.1 %
Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.3 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,405 tons, 51.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 741 tons, 27.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 333 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 2.3
Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is cramped
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.47
Shellfire needed to sink: 807 lbs = 26.8 x 3.9 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 69 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.18
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.38
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.35
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.11
'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 194.1 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 82.9 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 75 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.88
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 60 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.89
(for 13.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 1.33 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00
Ordinador Class 1903 – 2 ships 1903
Inspired by the British Pathfinder class it was deemed necessary to have equivalent ships, which led to this very innovative class. Oil firing was deemed to be an immediate success while the turbines had some teething problems, which led to a certain amount of scepticism in the Iberian navy.
Displacement:
2,893 t light; 2,973 t standard; 3,251 t normal; 3,460 t full load
Loading submergence 302 tons/feet
Dimensions:
420.00 ft x 43.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
5 - 3.92 " (100 mm) (5 Main turrets x 1 guns)
4 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
8 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 174 lbs (79 kg)
3 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 2.00 ", ends unarmoured, belts cover 120 % of normal area
Main belt does not fully protect magazines and engineering spaces
Main turrets 0.25 ", QF gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 0.67 ", Conning tower 3.00 "
Machinery:
19,103 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 25.50 kts, range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
215 - 279
Cost:
£0.383 million / $1.532 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 22 tons, 0.7 %
Armour: 366 tons, 11.3 %
Belts: 212 tons, 6.5 %, Armament: 9 tons, 0.3 %, Armour Deck: 131 tons, 4.0 %
Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.4 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,883 tons, 57.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 622 tons, 19.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 358 tons, 11.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 3.9
Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.88
Shellfire needed to sink: 655 lbs = 21.7 x 3.9 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 73 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.07
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.35
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.67
'Natural speed' for length: 20.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim: 54
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 204.0 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 112.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 67 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.58
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 36 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 0.60
(for 12.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -0.10 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.58
San Brendan Class 1905 – 6 ships 1905-7
Displacement:
3,238 t light; 3,328 t standard; 3,649 t normal; 3,891 t full load
Loading submergence 317 tons/feet
Dimensions:
430.00 ft x 44.00 ft x 15.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
6 - 3.92 " (100 mm) (6 Main turrets x 1 guns)
6 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 215 lbs (97 kg)
3 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 2.00 ", ends unarmoured, belts cover 180 % of normal area
Main turrets 2.00 ", QF gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.20 ", Conning tower 2.00 "
Machinery:
25,496 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 27.00 kts, range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
234 - 305
Cost:
£0.388 million / $1.552 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 27 tons, 0.7 %
Armour: 656 tons, 18.0 %
Belts: 329 tons, 9.0 %, Armament: 71 tons, 1.9 %, Armour Deck: 246 tons, 6.7 %
Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.3 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,800 tons, 49.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 754 tons, 20.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 411 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 2.9
Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.51
Shellfire needed to sink: 962 lbs = 32.0 x 3.9 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.4
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 76 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.12
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.29
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.54
'Natural speed' for length: 20.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim: 59
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 174.9 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 126.3 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 77 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.58
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 40 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 0.73
(for 14.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 1.62 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.59
Adelante Class 1910 – 5 ships 1912-13
Displacement:
2,844 t light; 2,961 t standard; 3,163 t normal; 3,312 t full load
Loading submergence 274 tons/feet
Dimensions:
400.00 ft x 41.00 ft x 15.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
4 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (4 Main turrets x 1 guns)
6 - 2.24 " (57 mm) QF
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 635 lbs (289 kg)
3 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 2.00 ", ends unarmoured, belts cover 130 % of normal area
Main turrets 2.00 ", QF gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.20 ", Conning tower 2.00 "
Machinery:
24,035 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 27.00 kts, range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
210 - 274
Cost:
£0.300 million / $1.202 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 79 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 527 tons, 16.7 %
Belts: 213 tons, 6.7 %, Armament: 91 tons, 2.9 %, Armour Deck: 213 tons, 6.7 %
Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.3 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 958 tons, 30.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,279 tons, 40.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 318 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 1.6
Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.11
Shellfire needed to sink: 2,417 lbs = 16.1 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.6
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 75 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.65
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.27
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.33
'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim: 59
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 125.9 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 130.7 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 103 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.94
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 73 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.70
(for 15.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 2.97 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00
Hasta Luego Class 1919 – 4 ships 1919-1920
Displacement:
3,850 t light; 3,986 t standard; 4,170 t normal; 4,300 t full load
Loading submergence 362 tons/feet
Dimensions:
460.00 ft x 47.00 ft x 15.00 ft (normal load)
Armament:
4 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (2 Main turrets x 2 guns)
6 - 2.24 " (57 mm) AA
4 - 0.5 " (13 mm)
Weight of broadside 635 lbs (289 kg)
3 - 17.7 " submerged torpedo tubes
Armour:
Belt 2.00 ", ends unarmoured, belts cover 170 % of normal area
Main turrets 2.00 ", AA gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.20 ", Conning tower 2.00 "
Machinery:
53,679 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 32.00 kts, range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Complement:
259 - 337
Cost:
£1.001 million / $4.006 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 79 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 720 tons, 17.3 %
Belts: 343 tons, 8.2 %, Armament: 84 tons, 2.0 %, Armour Deck: 281 tons, 6.7 %
Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.3 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,839 tons, 44.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,211 tons, 29.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 320 tons, 7.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Metacentric height 2.5
Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.28
Shellfire needed to sink: 1,415 lbs = 9.4 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 71 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.40
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.21
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.74
'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim: 59
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 165.4 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 167.6 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 81 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.60
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 54 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.12
(for 18.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 5.29 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.64
King of Riva
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 16
(4/14/03 12:50:57 pm)
Comments
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Hi!
a) Interesting post.
b) The Santiago de Cubas are too large to be rated as CLs under the treaty (8,000ts maximum). Further more a 4x2 layout is too futuristic for 1917 (first unit laid down so they are designed 1915/16 most likely).
c) Too many classes to go into detail. Sometimes the changes between classes seems somewhat too optimistic.
d) I really like the idea of those scout cruisers.
e) Which classes/ships will you keep under the treaty? What about your tonnage limits?
f) I think you have "build" too many units. Beg your pardon, but I think 74 (if I got it right) cruisers sounds unrealistic for a mid-sized navy even if your draft covers a time frame from the 1890s to 1921. Just take a look at the Angola class. 12 units! Heck, somebody had to pay for them, man them, keep them running and pay for their crews!
I´m not sure what the others have but in the timeframe 1908-1920 "only" ~28 light cruisers (all below 6,000ts) were laid down for the RSAN.
So if you have another 10-12 years (before 190 40-50 cruisers total may sound realistic for Iberia. Or am I totally wrong? Should the RSAN have many more cruisers instead? Is 28 too low to be realistic?
Anyway, 74 cruisers total is even more than what the Germans build until 1918 !!!
Rooijen10
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 43
(4/14/03 1:12:28 pm)
Re: Comments
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Further more a 4x2 layout is too futuristic for 1917
Maybe in this reality, but how about our alternate reality ? Maybe it is not futuristic at all in that reality.
If you look at Japan, the Asama and Jakumo class ACs and the Tenryu and Kuma class CLs all have a 4x2 layout (Asama is 1910). The Nagara class even has a 3x3 layout. For me, it is how I like the gun layout. The one I truly like is 4x3 (Nagato's 4x3 layout was actually a suggestion of HoOmAn to replace the 16 inch guns). When I looked at the original data on Japanese warships, I noticed that quite a few had single guns. I don't like single guns (some of my ships have them though). When I simmed the ships, I didn't look at what is realistic for that time, I simmed it the way I like it.
Water
PS: Beware of the ")" right after an "8". It'll turn into
LordArpad
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 7
(4/14/03 5:12:51 pm)
Re: Comments
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
b) The Santiago de Cubas are too large to be rated as CLs under the treaty (8,000ts maximum).
I know, trust me the Count of Riva is _not_ a popular man in the Admiralty right now ...
especially in the light of these:
(sorry, forgot them on the other post)
Hernan Cortez, Iberia Light Cruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
12,897 t light; 13,376 t standard; 14,559 t normal; 15,448 t full load
Loading submergence 767 tons/feet
Dimensions:
650.00 ft x 66.00 ft x 23.90 ft (normal load)
Armament:
12 - 6.7 " (170 mm) (3 Main turrets x 4 guns, 1 superfiring turret)
12 - 3.92 " (100 mm) AA
16 - 2.24 " (57 mm)
Weight of broadside 2,256 lbs (1,024 kg)
6 - 21 " above water torpedoes
Armour:
Belt 4.00 ", upper belt 2.00 ", end belts 1.00 ", belts cover 120 % of normal area
Main turrets 5.00 ", AA gun shields 1.00 ", Light gun shields 0.50 "
Armour deck 1.50 ", Conning tower 6.00 "
Machinery:
116,150 shp steam turbines, oil fired boilers = 33.00 kts, range 9,000nm at 13.00 kts
Complement:
662 - 861
Cost:
£2.971 million / $11.883 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 282 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 2,653 tons, 18.2 %
Belts: 1,243 tons, 8.5 %, Armament: 587 tons, 4.0 %, Armour Deck: 745 tons, 5.1 %
Conning Tower: 77 tons, 0.5 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 4,061 tons, 27.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,801 tons, 39.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,662 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.7 %
Metacentric height 2.9
Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather
Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.03
Shellfire needed to sink: 15,477 lbs = 102.9 x 6.7 " shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.6
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 89 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.69
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.51
Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.50
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.14
'Natural speed' for length: 25.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim: 59
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)
Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 106.4 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 181.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 111 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.94
(Structure weight per square foot of hull surface: 120 lbs)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.70
(for 26.00 ft average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 9.68 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00
As to the number of cruisers, I have just about used the 360kton given to me by the Treaty and I have the Med, Atlantic and the Pacific to worry about - also I lost Diego Garcia due to lack of cruisers - not gonna happen again!
cheers
Bernhard
King of Riva
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 22
(4/14/03 6:02:40 pm)
To Rooijen...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You wrote:
"(Nagato's 4x3 layout was actually a suggestion of HoOmAn to replace the 16 inch guns)."
Yep, but she´s a capital units and triples on BBs were already known - think Viribus Unitis or Nevada. Both classes laid down 1911. A year more or less for the introduction of heavy tripples doesn´t matter, though.
"When I looked at the original data on Japanese warships, I noticed that quite a few had single guns. I don't like single guns (some of my ships have them though)."
Until the plans to equipe german Emden with a 4x2 layout 1920/21 and the french Duguay-Trouin laid down 1922 _nobody_ used a 4x2 layout on cruisers. Further more, only a few cruisers carried twin turrets in those years anyway.
HMS Enterprise and her 15cm twin mount Type XVII forward introduced them to the RN light cruisers in 1926 while british CAs with that layout were first laid down 1924 (Kent-class), the advent of the german K-class first brought tripples on cruisers into the equation. The Italians were somewhat late, having the first 4x2 in 1928 on their Condottieri Class A and the Trentos in 1925. The IJN got their first light twins on the Yubari, 14cm guns but not in a 4x2 layout. The first IJN cruisers to have superfiring twin turrets were the Aobas 1924. Spain with the Canaris 1928 (a modified County anyway). Finally the USN. First twins on the Omahas 1918 but not superfiring. This honour belongs to the Pensacolas 1926...
So, beg your pardon, your designs are somewhat unrealistic...
"When I simmed the ships, I didn't look at what is realistic for that time, I simmed it the way I like it."
So you´re power-gaming where most others like Northman, Pengolodh, myself and some others try to do this as realistic as possible. When will you introduce your first nuke carrier? In 1942? Just kidding of course, but maybe you can try to get things more realistic, okay? Thanks very much....
It is okay to try to get the best - out of the technology available in those years.
King of Riva
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 23
(4/14/03 6:27:57 pm)
To LordArpad:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He´s not popular? Why is this?
Just curious...
You wrote:
"especially in the light of these:
(sorry, forgot them on the other post)
Hernan Cortez, Iberia Light Cruiser laid down 1920
Displacement:
12,897 t light; 13,376 t standard; 14,559 t normal; 15,448 t full load
Loading submergence 767 tons/feet"
Hey, more capital units! Wow... You´re really in trouble with the max number of hulls allowed under the treaty, eh?
"As to the number of cruisers, I have just about used the 360kton given to me by the Treaty and I have the Med, Atlantic and the Pacific to worry about - also I lost Diego Garcia due to lack of cruisers - not gonna happen again!"
Naja....
The tonnage comes with the treaty, okay, but this doesn´t mean you have to make full use of it, especially not for the time pre-treaty!
I´m not entirely sure but I think you even outbuild the British with those ~80 cruisers (this doesn´t count the ACs anyway), not only the Germans. Maybe even both together.
Really not bad for a mid-sized navy...
Sorry for saying this: You REALLY have to cut down your forces - all of them for the sake of it. Your fleet is totally out of the window. What you have posted so far is close to the strength of the RN, maybe even better in some categories. Unrealistic. You´re throwing the whole SIM out of balance.
Remeber what I once wrote: You´re not building your navy into a vacuum. If you like to do so, please do it on another board, in another simulation but not here. All you post here would have resulted in all our other fleets to be much larger.
I know my comments are not welcome, they´re not popular for sure but I will not accept you as a player if you continue to build up a number one navy. What you have here is not much better than 16inc posting he has 12 Hoods and 16 QEs. Sorry.
I tried to be diplomatic with my first post, giving you a hint that something may be wrong. You didn´t get the drift, oh no, instead you added even moer cruiser stuff!
Again: Even if you don´t keep all the stuff active under the treaty, it is too much by far.
I can accept your King being pro oil-burners earlier than others when you counter this on another field of naval architecture (carrier for example - none of them or cramped, weak and inadequate designs). This keeps the balance. ~80 cruisers do not. What will be next? 300 DDs? We had this before, ask 16inc about the reactions...
Grab your Whileys or any other cruiser book and read about cruiser developement. Count how mayn ships which navy had at the end of WW1 and start of WW2. Browse through all other players posts and try to get a picture of how many stuff we all have. Think about it and if you´ve cut your forces in half, we can discuss things again.
Believe me, I know how enthusiastic one can be about ones own designs. I would also like to have many more designs, showing my springstyle skills but I choosed to rate realismn higher than that.
Remember what you were told when you joined the SIM: Keep your feets on the floor. This is not the place to show everybody your dig is bigger than anyone´s else.
Last note: I hope you don´t take this post insulting. It is not meant this way. I just try to save our SIM. This is my priority no. 1 - everything else has to be sacrificed including new players if necessary.
I hope you got the point.
Still with a smile and lending you a hand if necessary,
HoOmAn - who is not God, not the moderator and not some kind of "realism police" even though he played this role more than once now.
thesmilingassassin
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 7
(4/14/03 9:49:02 pm)
some cruiser bench marks
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The omaha itself was ordered in 1916 and completed in 1920. She had twin turrets but they were not superfireing and she had casemate guns and she displaced 7050 tons standard. She was not very well protected. Everyone should keep in mind that the SIM is based on a slightly diferent world than we all know it in 1920 so we should all try to get on the same page and refrain from taking things personal. I myself have notice flaws in my design process as pertaining to my capital ships and its cost me a 14" armed battleship which almost certainly would not be the case with other navy's haveing a disadvantage in gun caliber to mine.
When we look at the size of world navy's we have to look at the overall political structure. Using Iberia as a start, it is a country that is more powerfull than historically and still retains some of its pre spanish american war territorys but not to many as to make the U.S. (a neutral country in our sim) significantly weaker. As a player of Iberia one must then look at the repercussions of comeing out of the spanish american war with more slightly favorable results as well (as it seems) avoiding the spanish civil war. In my opinion Iberia wouldn't be much larger in naval strength than a historical Italy with 4/5 battleships. When designing my navy i used a rule of thumb that for every battleship i have i will have three cruisers and five destroyers with a few extra for trade protection. Atlantis has 11 battleships, 22 cruisers (13 light,9 heavy) with at least 6 more on the way and roughly 56 destroyers with more on the way hopefully.
Lets just say Iberia has 4 battleships, that would mean that useing the 1:3:5 ratio Iberia would have 12 cruisers and at least 20 destroyers.
LordArpad
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 8
(4/15/03 12:18:29 am)
Re: some cruiser bench marks
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Grab your Whileys or any other cruiser book and read about cruiser developement. Count how mayn ships which navy had at the end of WW1 and start of WW2.
sorry, don't have one, and my stuff isn't at hand anyway - still in Germany
Browse through all other players posts and try to get a picture of how many stuff we all have. Think about it and if you´ve cut your forces in half, we can discuss things again.
that is mostly gone :-(
cutting them in half isn't much of a prob - neither is getting away from the twin turrets. BTW, since we already agreed that the capital ships are ok, they will remain. also does anybody have suggestions for the conversion of cruisers to CVs? how does adding torpedo bulbs affect the block coefficient?
new cruiser list coming up ...
cheers
Bernhard
LordArpad
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 9
(4/15/03 12:30:31 am)
Re: some cruiser bench marks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He´s not popular? Why is this?
Well, he is my chief negotiator and due to Treaty restrictions a lot of stuff witll have to go - 170 mm guns on light cruisers do not fit. Expensive the whole thing :-( I foresee a baaaad next posting for him.
cheers
Bernhard
King of Riva
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 25
(4/15/03 3:03:05 am)
Glad you don´t take it personal...
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Because I really like the design history, the concept, behind your designs. One can really see how things are crowing.
So don´t cut classes, cut numbers.
Btw, you´re not the only one with problems how to settle things down. Just look at my stuff. I have a pair of 28cm BCs in 1911 and a pair of 38cm BCs in 1920. I don´t call this a realistic design process.
But why is this? Simply because I completely _forgot_ a class of 35cm BCs in 1915/16! But all the stuff was posted and discussed so there was no chance to fix it. ( Now I have to live with the fact that my fleet lacks fast units. All I have are two 27kn BCs with 28cm guns!
So you have the chance to get maybe the most balanced and realistic fleet of us all because we´re discussing things before they are settled down for you.
Edited by: King of Riva at: 4/15/03 10:52:36 am
King of Riva
Spammer wanna be
Posts: 26
(4/15/03 3:08:23 am)
Count of Riva?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm...
I hope you´re not refering to me with "Count of Riva"?
The King of Riva, actually his name is Belgarion or just Garion for his wife and friends, is the leading character in the Belgariad-Saga written by David Eddings.
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Further more a 4x2 layout is too futuristic for 1917
Thursday, April 18th 2024, 8:40am
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