WesWorld

Would be great if you could, but if you don't, then so be it. No need to worry about that. I can easily create my own from scratch. That's not the problem. But I prefer to test that "armor weight = cargo weight" idea using existing designs rather than fantasy ones.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Forgot this one...

Quoted

The tonnage cost is far too high

Not sure what you mean with the "cost" bit.

Your design costs 11,248 tons to build, because the 'cargo' is simmed as armor that is there all the time. Where cargo is simmed as additional bunkers, the permanent structure of the ship is not burdened with the additional weight; the light displacement is far lower.

Actually it is 3098 tons as I indicated a few lines lower and that figure is only slightly more than the 3380 short tons (= 3017 tons) given on the Wiki page of the SS John W. Brown for light displacement.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Actually it is 3098 tons as I indicated a few lines lower and that figure is only slightly more than the 3380 short tons (= 3017 tons) given on the Wiki page of the SS John W. Brown for light displacement.

My error - but that highlights the confusion that can flow from some methods of simming a merchantman.

I know it's a "military sim" but may be we should also write down a gentleman agreement for merchantmens as we have for carriers and subs. So we have a common rule how to sim a merchant

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
I know it's a "military sim" but may be we should also write down a gentleman agreement for merchantmens as we have for carriers and subs. So we have a common rule how to sim a merchant

If we could gather full participation and approval, then I think it might be a good idea to at least discuss it.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Wiki is rubbish when it comes to Japanese merchant ship data.

Yes, when there's data for Japanese merchant ships at all. However, I had found a website some time ago which listed quite a number of the classes of Japanese merchant ships during the war, together with some photos and specs. Like I said, if I encounter it again I'll link it to you; not sure if I bookmarked it or now.

Nihon Kaigun comes to mind

I found a bunch of stuff over here in the Ship Models Forum, including a bunch of links to Japanese web sites.

My kanji is far too out of date.

I really don't care if people want to use US stuff so long as a) people let me know first and b) I can still use it as well.

The first is courtesy, the second essentially is so that we don't have a situation like we had awhile back where the US had no modern fighters.

And yes Walter I was ribbing you, I would rather not have Ford, GM, Chrysler, and AMC be the victims of "unitended acceleration" they have enough quality control problems as it is.

All that being said I don't want a deluge of people wanting to use US stuff either .

Quoted

I know it's a "military sim" but may be we should also write down a gentleman agreement for merchantmens as we have for carriers and subs. So we have a common rule how to sim a merchant

This is what's in the Springstyle notes regarding merchant ships...

Quoted

Transports and merchant ships: The "miscellaneous
weight" feature of the program allows weight to be reserved
for cargo capacity. So to give a ship a cargo capacity of
10,000 tons, simply provide that much miscellaneous weight.

Provide at least one gun, if only a .30 caliber or
9 mm (0.9 cm) weapon. Otherwise Spring Style will list
"0 x 0.0" guns, which looks silly! (*)

However, note that cargo ship capacity is normally
listed in gross registered tons (GRT), which is a measure of
volume, not weight - 100 cubic feet of enclosed volume =
1 gross registered ton. (However, registered tonnage is
usually about the same magnitude as weight capacity.)

To determine gross registered tonnage, make the
following calculations:

1) Multiply "loading submergence" (listed below the weights
table in the ship report) times ship's freeboard (listed
under hull strength in the hull characteristics section.)

2) Add the result to normal displacement.

3) Multiply by 35, then divide the answer by 100.
This is the gross registered tonnage for a typical
cargo ship.

Also, for civilian merchant ships, divide crew and
damage survival values by 10 - they have small crews, and
lack the extensive compartmentation of naval ships. For
naval transports, divide crew by 5 but leave survival
values unchanged. Adjust your ship report accordingly;
I compute and list Gross Registered Tonnage on the line
below displacement.

For armed merchant cruisers, I suggest simming
without the increased armament first, then adding the
armament and reducing miscellaneous weight (cargo capacity)
as needed.

(*) only applies to Springstyle. Not necessary with Spring Sharp.

Regrettably, Springstyle is not Springsharp 2.1, which is our standard. There is no "loading submergence" in Springsharp 2.1. We therefore have no rule that is applicable to the design program.

Loading submergence = (l*b*(c^(2/3)))/35

where

l = length
b = beam
c = block coefficient

Got this from one of the guys over at Navalism I believe...

I remembered that Wiki Japan is a lot more useful than English Wiki. I also ran across this site which has some data...




2A Class, Japan Cargo Ship laid down 1942

Displacement:
11,937 t light; 12,186 t standard; 12,424 t normal; 12,614 t full load
6,838 GRT
Displacement light (empty): 3,137 t

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
460.93 ft / 448.65 ft x 59.68 ft x 29.53 ft (normal load)
140.49 m / 136.75 m x 18.19 m x 9.00 m

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 88.0" / 2,235 mm 78.16 ft / 23.82 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 27% of normal length

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 1 shaft, 3,793 shp / 2,829 Kw = 13.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 9.50 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 428 tons

Complement:
58 - 76

Cost:
£2.747 million / $10.988 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0%
Armour: 8,800 tons, 70.8%
- Belts: 8,800 tons, 70.8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0%
Machinery: 99 tons, 0.8%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,438 tons, 19.6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 486 tons, 3.9%
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 4.8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,383 lbs / 4,710 Kg = 96.1 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.54

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 24 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 33
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forecastle (10%): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50%): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 13.85 ft / 4.22 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 9.8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.2%
Waterplane Area: 18,123 Square feet or 1,684 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 393 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.56
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
I remembered that Wiki Japan is a lot more useful than English Wiki. I also ran across this site which has some data...

Yup, that was the site I was thinking of!

A useful resource - albeit a book - on Japanese wartime merchant ships and their travails is "Ugly Duckling: Japan's WWII Liberty Type Standard Ships" by S.C. Heal.

Hantan (Agano II), Chosen Light Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
4,200 t light; 4,428 t standard; 5,175 t normal; 5,772 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
483.01 ft / 465.00 ft x 46.00 ft x 17.00 ft (normal load)
147.22 m / 141.73 m x 14.02 m x 5.18 m

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 577 lbs / 262 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350
16 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 366.00 ft / 111.56 m 8.14 ft / 2.48 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 121% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.75" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,530 shp / 45,156 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 10,300nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,344 tons

Complement:
304 - 396

Cost:
£2.773 million / $11.090 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 80 tons, 1.5%
Armour: 611 tons, 11.8%
- Belts: 241 tons, 4.7%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Armament: 79 tons, 1.5%
- Armour Deck: 274 tons, 5.3%
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.3%
Machinery: 1,581 tons, 30.6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,528 tons, 29.5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 975 tons, 18.8%
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 7.7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,349 lbs / 1,519 Kg = 53.6 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.498
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forecastle (20%): 17.50 ft / 5.33 m
- Mid (50%): 17.50 ft / 5.33 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 17.50 ft / 5.33 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 18.07 ft / 5.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121.0%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 53.0%
Waterplane Area: 14,794 Square feet or 1,374 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 285 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.69
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 0.75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Ogura data...

43 kg, 162cm, 80...

Whoops! Wrong data.

Not quite sure what I want actually. It is most likely going to be this one, though I do have a 12" version and an 11" version that I like and maybe I will... uhm... maybe I will just stick to this one.

Ogura, Japan Large Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
31,000 t light; 33,018 t standard; 36,777 t normal; 39,785 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
812.92 ft / 800.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 32.50 ft (normal load)
247.78 m / 243.84 m x 27.43 m x 9.91 m

Armament:
9 - 14.17" / 360 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,543.24lbs / 700.00kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (5x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
30 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (10x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
64 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (8x8 guns), 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 15,094 lbs / 6,847 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 0.88" / 22 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.75" / 44 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 134,741 shp / 100,517 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 10,522nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,766 tons

Complement:
1,327 - 1,726

Cost:
£19.501 million / $78.005 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,770 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 11,042 tons, 30.0 %
- Belts: 3,699 tons, 10.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 932 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 2,468 tons, 6.7 %
- Armour Deck: 3,871 tons, 10.5 %
- Conning Tower: 71 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,520 tons, 9.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,888 tons, 37.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,777 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 780 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
47,355 lbs / 21,480 Kg = 33.3 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 6.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.89 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.20 ft / 5.85 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.20 ft / 5.85 m
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 19.20 ft / 5.85 m
- Stern: 19.20 ft / 5.85 m
- Average freeboard: 20.06 ft / 6.12 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.2 %
Waterplane Area: 52,317 Square feet or 4,860 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 903 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.10
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

A playmate for Khranitel!

Hm...

9x360mm with 50% steadiness, 1.01 seakeeping and 1.08 stability.

vs

6x356mm with 70% steadiness, 1.20 seakeeping and 1.12 stability.

Close enough that luck will probably be the deciding factor.

I want to keep the range relatively long and hide behind my 120mm deck.

Maybe Khranitel will be charged with sexual harrassment.

If I were to cut the BC and cut beam to allow for bulges and change to 3x2 380cm guns and then do some tweaking, I'm pretty sure I can improve those aspects.


Other variants...

15" version

Ogura, Japan Large Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
31,000 t light; 32,636 t standard; 36,777 t normal; 40,091 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
813.28 ft / 800.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 32.50 ft (normal load)
247.89 m / 243.84 m x 27.43 m x 9.91 m

Armament:
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (3x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (5x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
30 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (10x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
64 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (8x8 guns), 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,205 lbs / 5,990 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 0.88" / 22 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.75" / 44 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 4.50" / 114 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 152,021 shp / 113,408 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 11,649nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,455 tons

Complement:
1,327 - 1,726

Cost:
£18.055 million / $72.219 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,424 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 11,303 tons, 30.7 %
- Belts: 3,699 tons, 10.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 932 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 2,244 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 4,355 tons, 11.8 %
- Conning Tower: 71 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,971 tons, 10.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,702 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,778 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
53,109 lbs / 24,090 Kg = 31.7 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 7.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.89 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.00 ft / 9.45 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.80 ft / 6.64 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.7 %
Waterplane Area: 52,317 Square feet or 4,860 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 179 lbs/sq ft or 876 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent



12" version

Ogura, Japan Large Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
31,000 t light; 33,003 t standard; 37,243 t normal; 40,635 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
823.83 ft / 810.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 32.50 ft (normal load)
251.10 m / 246.89 m x 27.43 m x 9.91 m

Armament:
12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x3 guns), 925.00lbs / 419.57kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
30 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (10x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
64 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (8x8 guns), 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 12,289 lbs / 5,574 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 550.00 ft / 167.64 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 0.88" / 22 mm 550.00 ft / 167.64 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 104% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.75" / 44 mm 550.00 ft / 167.64 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 161,948 shp / 120,813 Kw = 32.50 kts
Range 11,825nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,632 tons

Complement:
1,339 - 1,742

Cost:
£18.491 million / $73.964 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,462 tons, 3.9%
Armour: 11,098 tons, 29.8%
- Belts: 3,501 tons, 9.4%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,068 tons, 2.9%
- Armament: 2,536 tons, 6.8%
- Armour Deck: 3,920 tons, 10.5%
- Conning Tower: 72 tons, 0.2%
Machinery: 4,231 tons, 11.4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,609 tons, 36.5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,243 tons, 16.8%
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,017 lbs / 23,141 Kg = 59.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.50 ft / 9.91 m
- Forecastle (20%): 21.25 ft / 6.48 m
- Mid (50%): 21.25 ft / 6.48 m
- Quarterdeck (10%): 21.25 ft / 6.48 m
- Stern: 21.25 ft / 6.48 m
- Average freeboard: 22.15 ft / 6.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.1%
Waterplane Area: 52,976 Square feet or 4,922 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 857 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent



11" version

Ogura, Japan Large Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
31,000 t light; 32,691 t standard; 37,243 t normal; 40,885 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
824.56 ft / 810.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 32.50 ft (normal load)
251.33 m / 246.89 m x 27.43 m x 9.91 m

Armament:
12 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (4x3 guns), 665.50lbs / 301.87kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
30 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (10x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
64 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (8x8 guns), 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 9,175 lbs / 4,162 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 550.00 ft / 167.64 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 0.88" / 22 mm 550.00 ft / 167.64 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
Main Belt covers 104% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.75" / 44 mm 550.00 ft / 167.64 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 192,704 shp / 143,757 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 12,735nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,194 tons

Complement:
1,339 - 1,742

Cost:
£17.615 million / $70.460 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,165 tons, 3.1%
Armour: 11,010 tons, 29.6%
- Belts: 3,501 tons, 9.4%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,068 tons, 2.9%
- Armament: 2,448 tons, 6.6%
- Armour Deck: 3,920 tons, 10.5%
- Conning Tower: 72 tons, 0.2%
Machinery: 5,034 tons, 13.5%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,191 tons, 35.4%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,243 tons, 16.8%
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
53,516 lbs / 24,274 Kg = 80.4 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 7.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.50 ft / 10.52 m
- Forecastle (20%): 23.35 ft / 7.12 m
- Mid (50%): 23.35 ft / 7.12 m
- Quarterdeck (10%): 23.35 ft / 7.12 m
- Stern: 23.35 ft / 7.12 m
- Average freeboard: 24.24 ft / 7.39 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176.0%
Waterplane Area: 52,976 Square feet or 4,922 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 815 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.20
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Maybe it's just me, but the versions with the 36cm and the 38cm armament seem to be the best of the lot. 31,000 tons is a bit more than I'd pay for a ship that has 12" guns and relatively puny armour - and 11" guns, even twelve of them, give me the impression that it's undergunned.

On the other hand, if you give it the 6x38cm, the English-speaking press will perpetually refer to them as Renown clones.