WesWorld

First, the "non-sexy" ship, USS Cimarron. One ship to be converted this year, with more planned later.

Cimarron, United States Fleet Replenishment Ship laid down 1941

Displacement:
7,212 t light; 7,687 t standard; 22,165 t normal; 33,748 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
555.00 ft / 553.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 32.25 ft (normal load)
169.16 m / 168.55 m x 22.86 m x 9.83 m

Armament:
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1941 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 227 lbs / 103 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 16,308 shp / 12,166 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 51,750nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 26,060 tons

Complement:
907 - 1,180

Cost:
£2.099 million / $8.398 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 32 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 431 tons, 1.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,249 tons, 19.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 14,954 tons, 67.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,500 tons, 11.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
93,868 lbs / 42,578 Kg = 1,501.9 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 12.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.59
Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.37 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.52 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 35 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m before break)
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 12.73 ft / 3.88 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 21.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.9 %
Waterplane Area: 29,771 Square feet or 2,766 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 613 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 473 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.08
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weights:
250 tons 5in resupply ammuntion (9,060 rounds @ 55.18Ibs per round)
300 tons 1.1in resupply ammuntion (895,500 rounds @ 0.67lbs per round)
20 tons 0.5in resupply ammuniton (666,000 rounds @ 0.06lbs per round)
30 tons other ammuntion
100 tons cranes and underway replenishment equipment
1,800 tons consumable stores

So will she look anything like the historical Cimarron or will she be different?

She will look like the historical Cimarron, I based the dimensions and armament off the historical ship.

Ah, excellent. The vaunted UNREP expertise of the USN begins to appear...

Quoted

Ah, excellent. The vaunted UNREP expertise of the USN begins to appear...

(evil laugh).

USS Constellation is now well past her refit date, so she will be refitted this year as well. This is one of Canis's sims so I take no credit. No pretty drawing guys, sorry.

USS Constellation, United States Aircraft Carrier laid down 1921 (Engine 1941)

Displacement:
28,382 t light; 29,197 t standard; 31,581 t normal; 33,488 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
851.78 ft / 829.00 ft x 105.00 ft (Bulges 111.00 ft) x 26.00 ft (normal load)
259.62 m / 252.68 m x 32.00 m (Bulges 33.83 m) x 7.92 m

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
92 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (23x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
76 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (38x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1941 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 948 lbs / 430 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 544.00 ft / 165.81 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.50" / 64 mm 544.00 ft / 165.81 m 20.37 ft / 6.21 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 155,098 shp / 115,703 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,291 tons

Complement:
1,183 - 1,539

Cost:
£4.274 million / $17.097 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 133 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 5,375 tons, 17.0 %
- Belts: 1,133 tons, 3.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,025 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 40 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 3,113 tons, 9.9 %
- Conning Tower: 65 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,099 tons, 13.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,675 tons, 33.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,199 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 8,100 tons, 25.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
52,657 lbs / 23,885 Kg = 842.5 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 8.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 7.7 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.462
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.47 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.40 ft / 10.49 m
- Forecastle (17 %): 34.40 ft / 10.49 m (24.75 ft / 7.54 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 24.75 ft / 7.54 m
- Quarterdeck (17 %): 24.75 ft / 7.54 m
- Stern: 24.75 ft / 7.54 m
- Average freeboard: 26.39 ft / 8.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 223.5 %
Waterplane Area: 56,081 Square feet or 5,210 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 652 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

90 Aircraft as built

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
USS Constitution is now well past her refit date, so she will be refitted this year as well. This is one of Canis's sims so I take no credit. No pretty drawing guys, sorry.

USS Constellation, United States Aircraft Carrier laid down 1921 (Engine 1941)

Converting Old Ironsides to a 30k ton carrier would be quite a feat, sir.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
Converting Old Ironsides to a 30k ton carrier would be quite a feat, sir.

Now that I would like to see a picture of!!

Canadian ingenuity at its best Shin!

There, fixed.

The newest USN carrier design, three are planned at present. This started as one of Canis's original designs and I tinkered with it a bit.

USS Essex, United States Aircraft Carrier laid down 1941

Displacement:
40,914 t light; 41,977 t standard; 45,337 t normal; 48,025 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
926.22 ft / 866.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 34.00 ft (normal load)
282.31 m / 263.96 m x 32.92 m x 10.36 m

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
96 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (24x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
98 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (49x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1941 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 820 lbs / 372 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 562.90 ft / 171.57 m 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 562.90 ft / 171.57 m 31.40 ft / 9.57 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
No drive to shaft, 4 shafts, 208,755 shp / 155,731 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,047 tons

Complement:
1,553 - 2,019

Cost:
£9.385 million / $37.538 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 103 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 7,986 tons, 17.6 %
- Belts: 1,192 tons, 2.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,962 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 41 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 4,791 tons, 10.6 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,826 tons, 41.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,423 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 14,000 tons, 30.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
130,300 lbs / 59,103 Kg = 2,084.8 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 32.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 18.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.499
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.02 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 34.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 38.00 ft / 11.58 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 55.00 ft / 16.76 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 55.00 ft / 16.76 m (27.00 ft / 8.23 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Stern: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Average freeboard: 31.90 ft / 9.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 45.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 214.4 %
Waterplane Area: 64,743 Square feet or 6,015 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 199 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 950 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.35
- Longitudinal: 2.04
- Overall: 1.40
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

118 aircraft carried, 96 in squadrons and 22 as spares

Quoted

Machinery:
No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
No drive to shaft, 4 shafts, 208,755 shp / 155,731 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,047 tons

Whoops! He must have altered the date for that to have happened.

Sail powered carriers perhaps?

Lets try this again.

USS Essex, United States Aircraft Carrier laid down 1941

Displacement:
40,999 t light; 42,064 t standard; 45,428 t normal; 48,119 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
926.22 ft / 866.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 34.00 ft (normal load)
282.31 m / 263.96 m x 32.92 m x 10.36 m

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
96 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (24x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
98 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (49x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1941 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 820 lbs / 372 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.00" / 102 mm 562.90 ft / 171.57 m 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 562.90 ft / 171.57 m 31.40 ft / 9.57 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 209,112 shp / 155,998 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,055 tons

Complement:
1,555 - 2,022

Cost:
£14.186 million / $56.742 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 103 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 7,990 tons, 17.6 %
- Belts: 1,192 tons, 2.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,962 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 41 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 4,795 tons, 10.6 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 5,526 tons, 12.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,380 tons, 29.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,429 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 14,000 tons, 30.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
65,130 lbs / 29,543 Kg = 1,042.1 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 9.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.56

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.02 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 34.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 38.00 ft / 11.58 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 55.00 ft / 16.76 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 55.00 ft / 16.76 m (27.00 ft / 8.23 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Stern: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Average freeboard: 31.90 ft / 9.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 214.3 %
Waterplane Area: 64,803 Square feet or 6,020 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 675 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.44
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

118 aircraft carried, 96 in squadrons and 22 as spares

This is what I had in mind for Constellation

And Ranger

This was my design for the next US CV

Looking good. It's about time some of the older ships got a lick of paint and some upgrading.

I'm not sure on the Essex-Class as presented here. It's getting on for being ~15,000tons heavier than the historical ship and not really offering a great deal of advantage; a few more aircraft, a bit more armour, another kt speed, ridiculous amounts of AAA. I don't really understand why the historical ships aren't good enough.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
I'm not sure on the Essex-Class as presented here. It's getting on for being ~15,000tons heavier than the historical ship and not really offering a great deal of advantage; a few more aircraft, a bit more armour, another kt speed, ridiculous amounts of AAA. I don't really understand why the historical ships aren't good enough.

As Italy has found good and sufficient reason to pass beyond historical designs for the ships of the Italian Navy, so too might the United States Navy find reason in its mind to go beyond historical design. To argue that one nation may proceed as it sees fit and then argue that others should confine themselves to history is a double standard that has little place here.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
As Italy has found good and sufficient reason to pass beyond historical designs for the ships of the Italian Navy, so too might the United States Navy find reason in its mind to go beyond historical design. To argue that one nation may proceed as it sees fit and then argue that others should confine themselves to history is a double standard that has little place here.

But I explain the reasons for doing so...

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
As Italy has found good and sufficient reason to pass beyond historical designs for the ships of the Italian Navy, so too might the United States Navy find reason in its mind to go beyond historical design. To argue that one nation may proceed as it sees fit and then argue that others should confine themselves to history is a double standard that has little place here.

But I explain the reasons for doing so...

And you are suggesting that the US player cannot, if asked in a reasonable manner? All you have done is heckled him.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
And you are suggesting that the US player cannot, if asked in a reasonable manner? All you have done is heckled him.

You've got serious issues if you think that is heckling. Why do you interpret every post as being a personal insult?

Frankly, I agree with what Bruce said: the original comments didn't exactly come across as constructive criticism, just curt dismissal.

Let's play nice, gentlemen.