WesWorld

Here is my take on the Lion Class Battleships planned for Great Britain in 1940. I made them along the lines of the originals, adding extra armor here and there as Springsharp allowed. I think they are very well protected (the main belt alone is 16.5" thick, which beats all the other battleships of the world, including Yamato). I thickened the conning tower from the design 6" to a more satisfactory 18". I think protection of your ship against the enemy is more important than trying to disable your enemy with your guns, and i am willing to sacrifice some speed in the process. Even though the British 16"/45 shells weighed only 2,048 lbs compared to the USA's 2,240 lb (16"/45) and 2,700 lb (16"/50) shells, they still pack a powerful punch. I think the extra protection against heavy shells is definitely well worth it. If you don't even have satisfactory armor to protect your own ship, don't go into battle and expect to win, because you probably will end up as a floating wreck. Here is the rest of the design for you guys...

Lion Class, Great Britain Fast Battleships laid down 1940

Units in Class: HMS Lion, HMS Temeraire, HMS Conqueror, HMS Thunderer

Displacement: 41,114 t light; 44,105 t standard; 47,000 t normal; 49,316 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(793.00 ft / 782.00 ft) x 110.00 ft x (32.00 ft / 33.26 ft)
(241.71 m / 238.35 m) x 33.53 m x (9.75 m / 10.14 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns – 2,048 lbs / 929 kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
3 x 3-gun mounts on centerline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring

20 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns – 54 lbs / 24.5 kg shells, 700 per gun
Dual-Purpose (DP) guns in deck and hoist mounts
10 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts

40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 60.0 cal guns – 2.14 lbs / 0.97 kg shells, 2,000 per gun
AA guns in deck and hoist mounts
10 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts

Weight of main battery broadside = 18,432 lbs

Armor:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.5" / 419 mm 508.30 ft / 154.93 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Upper: 3.50" / 89 mm 508.30 ft / 154.93 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 15.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
3.50" / 89 mm 508.30 ft / 154.93 m 32.00 ft / 9.14 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 96.00 ft / 29.26 m

- Gun Armor: Face (max) Other Gunhouse (avg) Barbette / Hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 13.0" / 330 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Box over machinery and magazines:
Fore and Aft decks: 6.50" / 165 mm
Forecastle: 3.25" / 83 mm
Quarter deck: 3.25" / 83 mm

- Conning Tower: 18.00" / 457 mm

Machinery:
• Oil fired boilers, steam turbines
• Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp = 28.2 knots
• Range 15,000nm @ 12 knots
• Bunker at normal / max displacement = 2,895 tons / 5,210 tons (fuel oil)

Complement: 1,595 - 2,074 (planned 1600 +80 as flagship)

Cost: £22.383 million / $89.533 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
• Armament: 4,006 tons, 8.5 %
o Guns: 4,006 tons, 8.5 %
• Armor: 18,136 tons, 38.6 %
o Belts: 8,159 tons, 17.4 %
o Torpedo Bulkhead: 2,106 tons, 4.5 %
o Armament: 4,389 tons, 9.3 %
o Armor Deck: 2,976 tons, 6.3 %
o Conning Tower: 505 tons, 1.1 %
• Machinery: 3,209 tons, 6.8 %
• Hull, Fittings & Equipment: 15,014 tons, 31.9 %
• Fuel, Ammunition & Stores: 5,886 tons, 12.5 %
• Miscellaneous Weights: 750 tons, 1.6 %
o Hull below water: 300 tons
o Hull above water: 200 tons
o On freeboard deck: 200 tons
o Above deck: 50 tons

Overall Survivability and Seakeeping Ability:
• Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
o 80,966 lbs / 34,448 kg = 39.5 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 14.7 torpedoes
• Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
• Metacentric Height (GM): 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
• Roll Period: 16.8 seconds
• Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
• Seaboat Quality (Average = 1.00): 1.37


Hull Form Characteristics:
• Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and small transom stern
• Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.598 / 0.603
• Length to Beam Ratio: 7.11 : 1
• Hull Speed: 37.47 knots
• Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
• Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
• Bow Angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.62 degrees
• Stern Overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
• Freeboard Breakdown (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Part of Ship % of Length Fore End Aft End
Forecastle 20 32.0 ft / 9.75 m 27.0 ft / 8.23 m
Forward Deck 30 27.0 ft / 8.23 m 24.5 ft / 7.47 m
Aft Deck 35 24.5 ft / 7.47 m 24.5 ft / 7.47 m
Quarter Deck 15 24.5 ft / 7.47 m 24.5 ft / 7.47 m
Average Freeboard 25.78 ft / 7.86 m

Ship Space, Strength and Comments:
• Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192.7 %
• Waterplane Area: 64,361 square feet or 5,979 square meters
• Displacement Factor (displacement / loading): 110 %
• Structure weight / hull surface area: 214 lbs/sq ft or 1,043 kg/sq meter
• Hull Strength (Relative):
o Cross-sectional: 0.95
o Longitudinal: 1.50
o Overall: 1.00
• Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
• Excellent accommodation and workspace room
• Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
• Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I find the use of 5" 38s and 40mm odd, considering that those were primarily USN weapons. Is there a rational for using those weapons as opposed to the RN calibers that would fill those roles, mainly the 5.25" or 4.5" to replace the 5" and PomPoms to replace the 40mm?

The PomPoms would be 40mm as well; the USN used Bofors 40mm.

*mumbles something about the rational for continuing to designate weapons by there shell weight as opposed to diameter*

Quoted

originally posted by Brockpaine: I find the use of 5" 38s and 40mm odd, considering that those were primarily USN weapons. Is there a rational for using those weapons as opposed to the RN calibers that would fill those roles, mainly the 5.25" or 4.5" to replace the 5" and PomPoms to replace the 40mm?

I used the US 5"/38 and 40mm armament as a sort of Lend-Lease agreement between the US and Britain for battleship construction. I figured since they were allies during the conflict, can't they exchange weapons between themselves? That was my reasoning behind picking the 5"/38 and 40mm guns for the Lion Class Battleships.

If I recall correctly, the 5"/L38 did appear on a small number of (old) British cruisers which were repaired (read: rebuilt) in the United States. Aside from that, the British stuck faithfully to their own calibers because they had the parts and ammo stockpiles for them already in hand.

5.25" DP was in pretty high demand - the demand always exceeding actual production. That's why the Brits occasionally stuck 4" AA guns on the Didos in place of 5.25" twins. My bet's on 4.5".

Here ya go...Lion Class Battleships refitted with good ol' British guns...suprisingly, the displacement actually remained the same. I was able to add an extra 300 rounds of ammo to the secondary battery (total of 16,000 rounds for the secondaries...that should keep planes busy), as well as 1000 rounds of ammo to the AA guns (now QF 2-pdrs as per original design). Other than that, the design is the same as first submitted.

Lion Class, Great Britain Fast Battleships laid down 1940

Units in Class: HMS Lion , HMS Temeraire , HMS Conqueror , HMS Thunderer

Displacement: 41,114 t light; 44,105 t standard; 47,000 t normal; 49,316 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(793.00 ft / 782.00 ft) x 110.00 ft x (32.00 ft / 33.26 ft)
(241.71 m / 238.35 m) x 33.53 m x (9.75 m / 10.14 m)

Armament:
9 – BL 16" / 45.0 cal naval guns – 2,048 lbs / 929 kg shells, 150 per gun
3 x 3-gun mounts on centerline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring

16 – QF 5.25" / 39.0 cal guns – 80 lbs / 36.3 kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Dual-Purpose (DP) guns in deck and hoist mounts
10 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts

40 – QF 2-pounder AA guns – 2.0 lbs / 0.91 kg shells, 3,000 per gun
AA guns in deck and hoist mounts
10 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of main battery broadside = 18,432 lbs

Armor:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.5" / 419 mm 508.30 ft / 154.93 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Upper: 3.50" / 89 mm 508.30 ft / 154.93 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 15.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
3.50" / 89 mm 508.30 ft / 154.93 m 32.00 ft / 9.14 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 96.00 ft / 29.26 m

- Gun Armor: Face (max) Other Gunhouse (avg) Barbette / Hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 13.0" / 330 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Box over machinery and magazines:
Fore and Aft decks: 6.50" / 165 mm
Forecastle: 3.25" / 83 mm
Quarter deck: 3.25" / 83 mm

- Conning Tower: 18.00" / 457 mm

Machinery:
• Oil fired boilers, steam turbines
• Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp = 28.2 knots
• Range 15,000nm @ 12 knots
• Bunker at normal / max displacement = 2,895 tons / 5,210 tons (fuel oil)

Complement: 1,595 - 2,074 (planned 1600 +80 as flagship)

Cost: £22.383 million / $89.533 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
• Armament: 4,065 tons, 8.6 %
o Guns: 4,065 tons, 8.6 %
• Armor: 18,136 tons, 38.6 %
o Belts: 8,159 tons, 17.4 %
o Torpedo Bulkhead: 2,106 tons, 4.5 %
o Armament: 4,378 tons, 9.3 %
o Armor Deck: 2,976 tons, 6.3 %
o Conning Tower: 505 tons, 1.1 %
• Machinery: 3,209 tons, 6.8 %
• Hull, Fittings & Equipment: 15,225 tons, 32.4 %
• Fuel, Ammunition & Stores: 5,886 tons, 12.5 %
• Miscellaneous Weights: 750 tons, 1.6 %
o Hull below water: 300 tons
o Hull above water: 200 tons
o On freeboard deck: 200 tons
o Above deck: 50 tons

Overall Survivability and Seakeeping Ability:
• Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
o 79,778 lbs / 36,187 kg = 39.0 x 16" shells or 14.3 torpedoes
• Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
• Metacentric Height (GM): 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
• Roll Period: 16.8 seconds
• Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
• Seaboat Quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36


Hull Form Characteristics:
• Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and small transom stern
• Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.598 / 0.603
• Length to Beam Ratio: 7.11 : 1
• Hull Speed: 37.47 knots
• Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
• Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
• Bow Angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.62 degrees
• Stern Overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
• Freeboard Breakdown (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Part of Ship % of Length Fore End Aft End
Forecastle 20 32.0 ft / 9.75 m 27.0 ft / 8.23 m
Forward Deck 30 27.0 ft / 8.23 m 24.5 ft / 7.47 m
Aft Deck 35 24.5 ft / 7.47 m 24.5 ft / 7.47 m
Quarter Deck 15 24.5 ft / 7.47 m 24.5 ft / 7.47 m
Average Freeboard 25.78 ft / 7.86 m

Ship Space, Strength and Comments:
• Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 192.7 %
• Waterplane Area: 64,361 square feet or 5,979 square meters
• Displacement Factor (displacement / loading): 111 %
• Structure weight / hull surface area: 216 lbs/sq ft or 1,056 kg/sq meter
• Hull Strength (Relative):
o Cross-sectional: 0.96
o Longitudinal: 1.51
o Overall: 1.00
• Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
• Excellent accommodation and workspace room
• Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
• Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily