WesWorld

Hello Wesworld,

This is my first post, and i hope y'all like it.

I started this thread because I wanted to see if i could create a fast battleship class for Canada during WW2, and see how it would fare agianst the US Iowa Class and similar (and projected) foreign designs.

What i want you experienced Wesworld members to do is please evaluate my design and offer suggestions for improvement. I think it turned out quite well, considering this is my first ever warship design. Anyway here it is....

Newfoundland Class, Canadian Fast Battleships laid down 1940

Displacement: 43,864 t light; 45,996 t standard; 52,400 t normal; 57,523 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(948.00 ft / 932.00 ft) x 112.00 ft (Bulges 116.00 ft) x (30.00 / 32.49 ft)
(288.95 m / 284.07 m) x 34.14 m (Bulges 35.36 m) x (9.14 / 9.90 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,168.09lbs / 983.43kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centerline, evenly spread
1 raised mount
Weight of broadside 19,513 lbs / 8,851 kg

Armor:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Ends: 10.0" / 254 mm 327.00 ft / 99.67 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 20.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.50" / 64 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 100.00 ft / 30.48 m

- Hull Bulges:
6.00" / 152 mm 350.00 ft / 106.68 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m

- Gun Armor: Face (max) Other Gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 8.00" / 203 mm -

- Armored Deck - single deck:
• Fore and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
• Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm
• Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 6.00" / 152 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
• Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
• Geared drive, 4 shafts, 198,000 shp / 147,708 kW = 30.00 kts
• Range 12,000 at 18.00 kts
• Bunker at max displacement = 11,527 tons

Complement: 1,731 - 2,251

Cost: £19.721 million / $78.883 million


Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,383 tons, 4.5 %
- Guns: 2,383 tons, 4.5 %
Armor: 13,969 tons, 26.7 %
- Belts: 7,815 tons, 14.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 842 tons, 1.6 %
- Bulges: 777 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 946 tons, 1.8 %
- Armor Deck: 3,227 tons, 6.2 %
- Conning Towers: 362 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 5,294 tons, 10.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,118 tons, 32.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,536 tons, 16.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 5,100 tons, 9.7 %
- Hull below water: 1,500 tons
- Bulge void weights: 1,000 tons
- Hull above water: 1,500 tons
- On freeboard deck: 500 tons
- Above deck: 600 tons

Overall Survivability and Seakeeping Ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
119,525 lbs / 54,215 kg = 58.4 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 17.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 9.2 ft / 2.8 m
Roll Period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat Quality (Average = 1.00): 1.76

Hull Form Characteristics:
• Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and a round stern
• Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.565 / 0.573
• Length to Beam Ratio: 8.03 : 1
• 'Natural speed' for length: 30.53 kts
• Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
• Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
• Bow Angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.53 degrees
• Stern Overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
• Average Freeboard: 35.02 ft / 10.67 m

Ship Space, Strength and Comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 272.6 %
Waterplane Area: 71,878 square feet or 6,678 square meters
Displacement Factor (displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 852 kg/sq meter
Hull Strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.35
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Moved to the proper folder...

Welcome to Wesworld!

Looking at your design, my first impression is that it's not too bad. Trading speed for protection is not a bad thing in my book, though some might call 30 knot speeds a bit slow compared to other construction.

You are using a different version of Springsharp than we have agreed to use - looks like SS3 to me, which makes interpretation on some points a bit confusing. The miscellaneous weight seems rather higher than what I am used to seeing, and while the later version of SS allows it to be distributed, I am more interested in seeing what it represents - radar, command facilities, specialized storerooms or what-not.

I suspect that you *could* achieve pretty much the same results on a smaller ship if you sacrified some of the stability or seakeeping, which are really very high compared to many WW designs.

But please feel free to continue. We're always in need of fresh design perspective.

Indeed - as Bruce said, it is a pretty good design for a first sim. I don't see the breakdown of the freeboard, which is a bit odd - don't know where that went.

I've gone two major issues I'd want to address: armour and armament.

First, it appears there's no armour on the barbettes of the main guns. As this is an extremely vital area, it really ought to be protected to at least the same level as the turret faces themselves. Second, the 2.5" deck armour is sufficient for engaging ships heavy cruiser size and smaller, but against plunging fire from long-range high caliber guns - or versus vertical-falling bombs - it is woefully inadequate. For comparison, even pre-Jutland battleships received as much as 4" of armoured decks. The KGV had over five inches of deck armour, while the Italian Venetos had almost six inches in spots. Third, the end and upper belt armour (10" and 8" respectively), is quite high. The end belt will be most problematical as it will add weight to the less buoyant sections of the hull (where the underwater hull is thinner and provides less support to what's there). With those weights, the hull will be badly stressed and have a tendency to sag at the ends - the precise term is "hogging", I believe. The upper belt will have fewer problems, but historically most battleship designers used less armour there than you have. Finally, I'd like to call your attention to the torpedo protection. The ship's overall length is 932 feet, yet the torpedo defense system covers a space only 350 feet long, and goes down to only 26 feet below the waterline. This means the TDS covers 37.5% of the ship's overall length. As torpedoes, particularly the magnetically-fused types coming into service in the 1940s, are intended to strike as deep as possible below the waterline, the incomplete coverage in the vertical dimension would be problematical if the ship encountered torpedoes or naval mines.

Next - armament. Obviously there's no secondaries and AA armament, but that would be a pretty important part of the design. What sort of secondaries would your fictional Canada use? I'm presuming British-built, which would mean 5.25" (in which case, turret supplies are low and ROF is low), or 4.7" or 4.5" dual-purpose. Then I'd also presume a battery of 40mm Bofors or Pom-Poms, and 20mm of some sort, yes?

Here are my suggestions:
- Dropping the miscellaneous weight down to 1-2% of the normal tonnage
- Add barbette armour at between 90-100% the thickness of the main belt or turret faces
- Double the thickness of the main deck
- Reduce the end belts to 2-3" or drop them entirely
- Reduce the upper belt to 3-5" max
- Lengthen the torpedo defense system to the same length as the main belt, and set its depth to the ship's draft (or even higher - it's nice to have overlap)

Likes:
You've done well with your hull design, though I'd wonder if a Canadian ship would be sized to fit through the Panama Canal. Even so, you've done pretty well balancing off seakeeping, stability, and steadiness, and you've got a workable (if low) block coefficient. Those qualities are something I'd expect to see wrong in a new Springsharp user's first design, but you've nailed it. Good job. I also like the thicknesses you've given for the main belt, turret faces, and torpedo defense system (though my note above still applies to the latter): it's a good choice, not overly ambitious, and realistic.

I know I addressed a lot of points, but as I said, for a first-time user it's pretty well-done. You avoided most of the worst beginner's mistakes and have a design you can actually fix up. (Beats my first attempt...)

Oh, and welcome to Wesworld.

Here is my battleships all modified from your suggestions (and my judgement as well).

Some of the changes i was able to incorporate are:
- thicker deck protection (5.75 in vs. 2.5 in original)
- better torpedo protection (605 ft protection)
- one knot extra speed - 31 opposed to 30 kts
- i added a secondary, tertiary and fourth battery of guns for protection against surface combatants and aircraft.
- These and other changes increased torpedo protection from 17.5 to 20.6 torpedoes and as well increased steadiness and stability.

Here is the revised design...

Newfoundland Class, Canadian Fast Battleships laid down 1940

Displacement: 43,819 t light; 45,997 t standard; 52,400 t normal; 57,522 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(948.00 ft / 932.00 ft) x 112.00 ft (Bulges 116.00 ft) x (30.00 ft / 32.49 ft)
(288.95 m / 284.07 m) x 34.14 m (Bulges 35.36 m) x (9.14 m / 9.90 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,168.09lbs / 983.43kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centerline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring

20 - 4.50" / 114 mm 38.0 cal guns - 42.99lbs / 19.50kg shells, 80 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts

40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 20.0 cal guns - 1.75lbs / 0.79kg shells, 200 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model

10 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
11 raised mounts

12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 20.0 cal guns - 0.22lbs / 0.10kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts

Weight of broadside 20,445 lbs / 9,274 kg

Armor:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 2.50" / 64 mm 327.00 ft / 99.67 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 20.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.50" / 64 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 100.00 ft / 30.48 m

- Hull Bulges:
4.00" / 102 mm 305.00 ft / 92.96 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m

- Gun Armor: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2.50" / 64 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armored Deck - single deck:
Fore and Aft decks: 5.75" / 146 mm
Forecastle: 5.75" / 146 mm
Quarter deck: 5.75" / 146 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
• Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
• Geared drive, 4 shafts, 218,000 shp / 162,628 kW = 31.00 kts
• Range 12,000 nautical miles @ 18.00 kts
• Bunker at max displacement = 11,526 tons

Complement: 1,731 - 2,251

Cost: £20.383 million / $81.532 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,505 tons, 4.8 %
- Guns: 2,505 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 16,848 tons, 32.2 %
- Belts: 5,235 tons, 10.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,791 tons, 3.4 %
- Bulges: 451 tons, 0.9 %
- Armament: 1,180 tons, 2.3 %
- Armour Deck: 7,708 tons, 14.7 %
- Conning Towers: 483 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 5,829 tons, 11.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,136 tons, 30.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,581 tons, 16.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,500 tons, 4.8 %
- Hull below water: 500 tons
- Hull above water: 500 tons
- On freeboard deck: 1,000 tons
- Above deck: 500 tons

Overall Survivability and Seakeeping Ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
120,186 lbs / 54,515 kg = 58.7 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 20.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric Height: 9.3 ft / 2.8 m
Roll Period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat Quality (Average = 1.00): 1.80

Hull Form Characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.565 / 0.573
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.03 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.53 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.53 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m, 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 36.00 ft / 10.97 m, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Average freeboard: 35.02 ft / 10.67 m

Ship Space, Strength and Comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 272.6 %
Waterplane Area: 71,878 square feet or 6,678 square meters
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 854 kg/sq meter
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.48
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

As a side note, I envisioned these battleships as "Canadian Iowas " albeit a bit slower, and i think now they are better protected and up for fighting in the Pacific theater of war along with the US battleships. What do you guys think?

Few things that I see.

- That's a LOT of misc. weight, even for a battleship. Mayby 750 tons total is needed at an extreme upper end?

- I'm not exactly sure why you're armouring hull bulges when you have that torpedo bulkhead; of course, I'm not sure if that was ever done in anywhere (somebody else know?). In any case, 4'' of underwater protection for that is probably overkill. Maybe 3.5'' total, if it's a layered system...

- Might be a little light on the 20 mm guns, and you've got nowhere near enough ammunition for those, the 4.5'' guns, or the 40 mms. You would be out of ammunition for the 20 mm guns in a little less than 30 seconds at a full ROF, and in about 2 minutes for the 40 mm guns. The cal also seems a bit low on the 20 mm and the 40 mm guns.

Other than that, it's looking really, really good.

-

The M/36 Bofors IIRC was 40L60

I changed the 40 mm and 20 mm magazines to hold 4,000 rounds each. I think that solves my ammunition problem, and seems enough for anti-aircraft work.

I armed the bulges as well because it gave me overall better stability and 6.5 inches of total underwater protection (4" bulges + 2.5" torpedo bulkhead = 6.5 inches total).

Other than that, i think that the design is solid.

Newfoundland Class, Canadian Fast Battleships laid down 1940

The Newfoundland’s are similar in appearance to the US Iowa class battleships, albeit a bit smaller (57,500 tons full load vs. 60,000 tons) and a bit slower (31 knots vs. 33 knots) Otherwise, they are armed with nine 16-inch guns in three triple turrets, ten 4.5-inch DP guns to engage surface combatants and aircraft, and numerous AA guns, of the 40mm quad and 20mm single type. They are extremely well armored to withstand enemy gunfire, and equally well protected underneath the waterline to resist enemy torpedoes and mines.

Displacement: 43,819 t light; 45,997 t standard; 52,400 t normal; 57,522 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(948.00 ft / 932.00 ft) x 112.00 ft (Bulges 116.00 ft) x (30.00 ft / 32.49 ft)
(288.95 m / 284.07 m) x 34.14 m (Bulges 35.36 m) x (9.14 m / 9.90 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns – 2,168.09 lbs / 983.43kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centerline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4.50" / 114 mm 38.0 cal guns – 43.00 lbs / 19.50 kg shells, 80 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 20.0 cal guns – 1.75lbs / 0.79 kg shells, 4000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
10 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
11 raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 20.0 cal guns – 0.22lbs / 0.10 kg shells, 4000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 20,445 lbs / 9,274 kg

Armor:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 2.50" / 64 mm 327.00 ft / 99.67 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 20.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.50" / 64 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 100.00 ft / 30.48 m

- Hull Bulges:
4.00" / 102 mm 305.00 ft / 92.96 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m

- Gun Armor: Face (max) Other Gunhouse (avg) Barbette/Hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2.50" / 64 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armored Deck - single deck:
Fore and Aft decks: 5.75" / 146 mm
Forecastle: 5.75" / 146 mm
Quarter deck: 5.75" / 146 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
• Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
• Geared drive, 4 shafts, 218,000 shp / 162,628 kW = 31.00 kts
• Range 12,000 nautical miles @ 18.00 kts
• Bunker at max displacement = 11,526 tons

Complement: 1,731 - 2,251

Cost: £20.383 million / $81.532 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
• Armament: 2,505 tons, 4.8 %
o Guns: 2,505 tons, 4.8 %
• Armour: 16,848 tons, 32.2 %
o Belts: 5,235 tons, 10.0 %
o Torpedo bulkhead: 1,791 tons, 3.4 %
o Bulges: 451 tons, 0.9 %
o Armament: 1,180 tons, 2.3 %
o Armour Deck: 7,708 tons, 14.7 %
o Conning Towers: 483 tons, 0.9 %
• Machinery: 5,829 tons, 11.1 %
• Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,136 tons, 30.8 %
• Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,581 tons, 16.4 %
• Miscellaneous weights: 2,500 tons, 4.8 %
o Hull below water: 500 tons
o Hull above water: 500 tons
o On freeboard deck: 1,000 tons
o Above deck: 500 tons

Overall Survivability and Seakeeping Ability:
• Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
o 120,186 lbs / 54,515 kg = 58.7 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 20.6 torpedoes
• Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
• Metacentric Height: 9.3 ft / 2.8 m
• Roll Period: 15.9 seconds
• Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
• Seaboat Quality (Average = 1.00): 1.80

Hull Form Characteristics:
• Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and a round stern
• Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.565 / 0.573
• Length to Beam Ratio: 8.03 : 1
• 'Natural speed' for length: 30.53 kts
• Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
• Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
• Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.53 degrees
• Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
• Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore End Aft End
- Forecastle: 20.00 % 40.00 ft / 12.19 m 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 % 36.00 ft / 10.97 m 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 % 34.00 ft / 10.36 m 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 % 34.00 ft / 10.36 m 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Average freeboard: 35.02 ft / 10.67 m

Ship Space, Strength and Comments:
• Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 272.6 %
• Waterplane Area: 71,878 square feet or 6,678 square meters
• Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
• Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 854 kg/sq meter
• Hull strength (Relative):
o Cross-sectional: 0.96
o Longitudinal: 1.48
o Overall: 1.00
• Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
• Excellent accommodation and workspace room
• Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
• Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Out of curiosity, what strategic considerations do you feel would drive Canadian battleship design? Historically, the RCN preferred to concentrate almost exclusively on light escorting units, which served them very well in the Battle of the Atlantic.

I see that there are a few minor points you might want to consider in the design.

The first that stands way out is the small number of rounds carried for the secondary battery - 80 rounds per gun for them will last only a short while and would then leave your primary AA defense without ammunition. Also, I would recommend placing these guns in deck mounts with hoists, since you are already armoring their below deck areas.

The tertiary 40mm battery has some odd points about it. I really do not think that putting armor below deck - if I am reading the Springsharp right - is appropriate in this instance, and would not be possible with a deck mount rather than a deck mount and hoist. There is also a minor disconnect between the number of mounts (ten quads) and the number of raised mounts (cited as eleven). A small fix.

I personally feel that the armor on the conning tower is weak; my preference is to armor the CT to the same level as the main gun turrets - others may have other views.

Looks pretty good to me, esp. for someone who I haven't seen around here that much.

- Conning tower: it's either too weak or too strong. At the strength of armour you have it at, it will detonate large caliber shells without affording protection from them. I, personally, would decrease it to about three inches, my reasoning being that the shock from an explosion will knock out all electronics and probably kill everyone inside. If you're in Bruce's train of reasoning, that the protection from lighter calibers is worth it, I'd increase it to the main turret strength. Also, if you have a for one, the aft one probably isn't needed

- AA guns: Decreasing the raised batteries from 11 to 10 should solve the problem. Also seem to be a little light on the 20 mm guns.

- DP guns: I don't remember exactly what caliber the 4.5'' guns are, but they weren't 38 cals... Also, shells might be closer to 250. They should be in deck mounts with hoists, otherwise you'll have massive ammo lockers on deck.

- I still don't understand the massive amounts of underwater armour...

- Misc. Weight - You can afford to chop 1,500 tons, at least, off...

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
- Conning tower: it's either too weak or too strong. At the strength of armour you have it at, it will detonate large caliber shells without affording protection from them. I, personally, would decrease it to about three inches, my reasoning being that the shock from an explosion will knock out all electronics and probably kill everyone inside. If you're in Bruce's train of reasoning, that the protection from lighter calibers is worth it, I'd increase it to the main turret strength.

I agree with Tex's analysis on why the armour is not ideal; but I differ with his opinion that it should be thinner. I think the citadel should have the best armour on the ship aside from turret faces.

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
- DP guns: I don't remember exactly what caliber the 4.5'' guns are, but they weren't 38 cals... Also, shells might be closer to 250. They should be in deck mounts with hoists, otherwise you'll have massive ammo lockers on deck.

4.5"/L45, I believe.

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
- I still don't understand the massive amounts of underwater armour...

What massive amounts of underwater armour? It's pretty decent, methinks.

The 4'' bulges and 2.5'' torpedo bulkhead.

As I said, everyone's entitled to their own opinion there. I know me and RA prefer it lighter, you and Bruce may prefer it heavier.

2.5" is fairly normal for historical ships, though the Iowas are reportedly rather deficient in underwater protection.

Hello guys, i heeded your suggestions and took the design back to springsharp to rework it.

I had to make some sacrifices though to make it work: increasing the beam by an unplanned 4-ft, thus increasing the power needed to maintain an acceptable speed; I increased the conning tower armor to 16 inches (same as turret faces); fixed the armament and shell problems; deleted the armor on the ends of the hull -- kind of redundant anyway; reduced the caliber of the main guns from 50 to 45 - it increased the recoil to above 1.00 otherwise - not good; fixed a range and speed problem i found - the range is now 12,000 miles @ 15 knots, not 18 knots; brought down the miscallaneous wgts to 600 tons, which is more acceptable. I think that's all, but here is the design so you can formulate your opinions on. (see below) At least one good thing thorugh all these changes i managed to pull an extra 1.25 knots towards the speed of by battleships - at least somewhat close to the Iowa's at 33+knots.

Newfoundland Class, Canadian Fast Battleships laid down 1940

Displacement: 52,382 t light; 54,893 t standard; 61,000 t normal; 65,886 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(956.00 ft / 940.00 ft) x 116.00 ft x (30.00 ft / 32.07 ft)
(291.39 m / 286.51 m) x 35.36 m x (9.14 m / 9.78 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,065.46lbs / 936.88kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1940 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centerline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4.50" / 114 mm 45.0 cal guns - 46.01lbs / 20.87kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1940 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides - evenly spread
6 raised mounts
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 20.0 cal guns - 1.74lbs / 0.79kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
8 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 20.0 cal guns - 0.22lbs / 0.10kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides - evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19,568 lbs / 8,876 kg

Armor:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmored
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 20.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.50" / 64 mm 605.00 ft / 184.40 m 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 100.00 ft / 30.48 m

- Gun Armor: Face (max) Other Gunhouse (avg) Barbette/Hoist (max)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm - 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2.50" / 64 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armored Deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 5.00" / 127 mm
Forecastle: 5.00" / 127 mm
Quarter deck: 5.00" / 127 mm

- Conning Towers: Forward 16.00" / 406 mm, Aft 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
• Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
• Geared drive, 4 shafts, 246,000 shp / 183,516 kW = 32.25 kts
• Range 12,000 nm @ 15.00 knots
• Bunker at normal / max displacement = 6107 tons / 10,993 tons (fuel oil)

Complement: 1,939 - 2,522

Cost: £27.460 million / $109.839 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
• Armament: 3,895 tons, 6.4 %
o Guns: 3,895 tons, 6.4 %
• Armor: 19,077 tons, 31.3 %
o Belts: 4,168 tons, 6.8 %
o Torpedo bulkhead: 1,791 tons, 2.9 %
o Armament: 4,348 tons, 7.1 %
o Armour Deck: 7,702 tons, 12.6 %
o Conning Towers: 1,068 tons, 1.8 %
• Machinery: 6,578 tons, 10.8 %
• Hull, Fittings & Equipment: 22,233 tons, 36.4 %
• Fuel, Ammunition & Stores: 8,618 tons, 14.1 %
• Miscellaneous Weights: 600 tons, 1.0 %
o Hull below water: 100 tons
o Hull above water: 100 tons
o On freeboard deck: 200 tons
o Above deck: 200 tons

Overall Survivability and Seakeeping Ability:
• Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
o 118,112 lbs / 53,575 Kg = 57.7 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 18.6 torpedoes
• Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
• Metacentric height 7.6 ft / 2.3 m
• Roll period: 17.7 seconds
• Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.85
• Seaboat Quality (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull Form Characteristics:
• Hull has a flush deck, a straight bulbous bow and a round stern
• Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.653 / 0.659
• Length to Beam Ratio: 8.10 : 1
• 'Natural speed' for length: 30.66 kts
• Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
• Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
• Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.53 degrees
• Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
• Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 40.00 ft / 12.19 m, 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 36.00 ft / 10.97 m, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m, 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
- Average freeboard: 35.02 ft / 10.67 m

Ship Space, Strength and Comments:
• Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 279.6 %
• Waterplane Area: 82,596 square feet or 7,673 square meters
• Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
• Structure weight / hull surface area: 216 lbs/sq ft or 1,053 kg/sq meter
• Hull Strength (Relative):
o Cross-sectional: 0.96
o Longitudinal: 1.45
o Overall: 1.00
• Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
• Excellent accommodation and workspace room
• Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
• Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Posted by Brockpaine: Out of curiosity, what strategic considerations do you feel would drive Canadian battleship design? Historically, the RCN preferred to concentrate almost exclusively on light escorting units, which served them very well in the Battle of the Atlantic.

Answer : Nothing really strategic, i guess. I was just thinking on the grounds, that say, the German battleship Bismarck ruled the Atlantic in the period 1940-1941, that Canada would need a powerful warships (battleships, as you can see) to protect her interests in the Atlantic and as a deterrent to further German aggression. The USA i believe was still neutral at this time and not at war, but Canada, being a British dominion, was at war, and therefore needed to act as such. I think that would've been the main reason for the Canadian government to start a major warship program (which would've probably included some aircraft carriers of its own later on, thus negating the need to buy/lease them from G.B. and USA) That's just smoe of my thoughts, feel free to comment.

You have no armor on you Main and Secondary batteries sides/tops.

Also, looking through the HNSA Gun Mount and Turret Catalog, and using the US 5"/38 as a guideline, the thickest armor was 0.75", you have 2.5" on your 4.5"/45s. Using the same resource, the thickest armor on a 20mm was 0.5" and the 40mm (strangely) was 0.375". I'm not sure on RN armoring practices, but I think yours 'tis a little thick.

Several of the design paramaters I think could be adjusted to improve the results and economize on tonnage.

The proposed design is very long - nearly 1000 feet. That results in a very large hull, lots of engine power and many corollary issues. I'd try a transom stern, which should help the speed issue, reduce the freeboard somewhat, and adjust the hull form. Look at the dimensions of the OTL Iowa and you will see was much shorter.