WesWorld

With the increased threat posed to surface ships as aircraft get progressively more powerful and deliver more powerful attacks it was presented to the Naval Board that a ship with the main goal of providing effective anti-aircraft fire should be considered for construction.

It was then decided that the 5"/40cal be the main weapon, augmented with 40mm and 20mm AA.

With a high speed and a fast firing main battery similar to that carried by the Eptanisa class fleet destroyers, thoughts that the ship could operate as a heavy leader were also considered, hence the torpedo armament.

OOC: Eventually, the decision that the ship is to valuable to risk on torpedo attacks will be made, however the torpedoes will remain as they provide a measure of offensive power against larger surface ships that the 5" would not be effective against.

E-441g, Greek Anti-Aircraft Cruiser laid down 1941

Displacement:
9,500 t light; 9,965 t standard; 11,044 t normal; 11,907 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
613.00 ft / 600.00 ft x 64.85 ft x 18.05 ft (normal load)
186.84 m / 182.88 m x 19.77 m x 5.50 m

Armament:
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,290 lbs / 585 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 310
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 417.50 ft / 127.25 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 120,000 shp / 89,520 Kw = 34.05 kts
Range 5,600nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,942 tons

Complement:
538 - 700

Cost:
£5.637 million / $22.547 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 161 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,659 tons, 15.0 %
- Belts: 520 tons, 4.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 101 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,005 tons, 9.1 %
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 3,171 tons, 28.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,409 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,544 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,625 lbs / 6,180 Kg = 218.0 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.01 ft / 0.92 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Mid (63 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Stern: 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 189.1 %
Waterplane Area: 27,164 Square feet or 2,524 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 500 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.61
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Mmmmm...

I think it's about 30-40% too large for the role, needlessly overarmed, and lacking a proper secondary caliber battery (such as 3", 88mm or 90mm).

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Mmmmm...

I think it's about 30-40% too large for the role,

Fair enough, she is pretty large. I'll shoot for 6-7k instead.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
needlessly overarmed

How so?

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
and lacking a proper secondary caliber battery (such as 3", 88mm or 90mm).

And what would the purpose of a 3" gun be?

Smaller.


E-541a, Greek Anti-Aircraft Cruiser laid down 1941

Displacement:
7,000 t light; 7,383 t standard; 8,106 t normal; 8,684 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
555.00 ft / 541.00 ft x 53.00 ft x 19.80 ft (normal load)
169.16 m / 164.90 m x 16.15 m x 6.04 m

Armament:
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,040 lbs / 472 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 354
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 364.00 ft / 110.95 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 82,000 shp / 61,172 Kw = 32.52 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,302 tons

Complement:
426 - 555

Cost:
£4.065 million / $16.258 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 130 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 1,265 tons, 15.6 %
- Belts: 451 tons, 5.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 81 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 707 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,167 tons, 26.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,268 tons, 40.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,106 tons, 13.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 170 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,977 lbs / 4,526 Kg = 159.6 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.21 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.26 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.81 ft / 1.16 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (63 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.2 %
Waterplane Area: 19,099 Square feet or 1,774 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 90 lbs/sq ft or 440 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.44
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Mmmmm...

I think it's about 30-40% too large for the role, needlessly overarmed, and lacking a proper secondary caliber battery (such as 3", 88mm or 90mm).

I will agree that the ship as designed is too large for the intended role. And certainly a battery of twenty 5-in dual purpose guns is far too many - the available miscellaneous weight is insufficient to carry the number of HA Directors to control so many guns, as well as the 40mm.

I don't agree that a mid-size caliber is required for an AA cruiser - if scaled back to say 6,000 tons with twelve main guns - the mix of 40mm and 20mm guns would suffice. If a good mid-range gun in the 57mm range were available, I'd substitute that for the 40mm.

On the other hand, if a cruiser of 9,000 tons is required for other purposes, the 5-in main armament, no matter how many barrels, is inadequate.

I'm still not sure what the entire goal of all these recent cruisers with speed in excess of 33 knots is; what can a 34 knot cruiser do that a 33 knot cruiser can't?

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
I'm still not sure what the entire goal of all these recent cruisers with speed in excess of 33 knots is; what can a 34 knot cruiser do that a 33 knot cruiser can't?

Keep up w/ 36kt DDs in a seaway? Either way, the second, smaller version is only 32.5kts and 7,000t with an extra 70t for more directors while carrying 2 less twin 5/40 mounts.

I'm still not entirely sure what FC/Radar/Electronics suite Greece even has. I'd presume, with all the other dealings pre-me w/ GB and France it would be 2nd tier/older British or French equipment.

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
I'm still not sure what the entire goal of all these recent cruisers with speed in excess of 33 knots is; what can a 34 knot cruiser do that a 33 knot cruiser can't?

The most obvious thing is that a 34 knot cruiser can run down a 33 knot cruiser - at least on paper.

I see no reason to be concerned when a player see the need for increased speed in vessels planned for construction. The player - in their own design doctrine - considers the speed required. Also, as we advance forward in time, the improvements in the efficiency of machinery makes it somewhat less expensive to construct a ship capable of higher speeds.

In the particular case of a dedicated anti-aircraft vessel, I can see where speed would have value in maintaining an antiaicraft screen and in maneuvering in concert with escorting destroyers.

My two pfennigs.