WesWorld

Hoo has requested that I resim the Sachsen class battleships, as Hrolf, my predecessor, had used Springsharp 3.0 in creating his sim, and Springsharp 2.1 is the version agreed upon for use in Wesworld. I have reached the point where I am attempting to fulfill his request but I have run into several problems in re-simming the design, and would ask for your comment or suggestions in dealing with them.

I have posted the two sims below – Hrolf’s original first, and mine following.

Several differences I am aware of – SS 2.1 does not allow for calibre of guns to be specified nor shell weight; I have had to simplify the layout of the armament as SS 2.1 does not have sufficient options to specify the mix of twin and quad mounts Hrolf specified in the light AA outfit. The Block Coefficient is different between the two designs – the BC in my resim is derived by inputting the normal displacement of Hrolf’s sim into my own, rather than selecting his BC; I have tried that and found that the light displacement is at variance by nearly 3,000 tons instead of some 600 tons. The weight distribution seems quite off.

Any suggestions on how best to harmonize the two sims and reduce the variances are appreciated.

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Sachsen, German Battleship laid down 1935 (Original Sim by Hrolf Hakonson)

Sachsen laid down at Kiel, Q1 1935
Ostmark laid down at Cuxhaven, Q3 1935
Preuzen laid down at Kiel, Q1 1936
Bayern laid down at Cuxhaven, Q1 1936

Displacement:
63,165 t light; 66,684 t standard; 71,767 t normal; 75,834 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(908.05 ft / 885.83 ft) x 126.31 ft x (37.73 / 39.43 ft)
(276.77 m / 270.00 m) x 38.50 m x (11.50 / 12.02 m)

Armament:
9 - 17.72" / 450 mm 52.0 cal guns - 3,306.93lbs / 1,500.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 5.91" / 150 mm 60.0 cal guns - 100.31lbs / 45.50kg shells, 180 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
22 - 4.13" / 105 mm 65.0 cal guns - 39.15lbs / 17.76kg shells, 360 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
40 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 83.0 cal guns - 1.76lbs / 0.80kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model
18 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
64 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 0.26lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
12 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x 2 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 32,517 lbs / 14,749 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 20.5" / 520 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 345.44 ft / 105.29 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 2.46 ft / 0.75 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
2.36" / 60 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 35.50 ft / 10.82 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 119.75 ft / 36.50 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 23.6" / 600 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 17.7" / 450 mm
2nd: 4.72" / 120 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 7.09" / 180 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 4.72" / 120 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 146,424 shp / 109,232 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,150 tons

Complement:
2,192 - 2,850

Cost:
£30.840 million / $123.361 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6,785 tons, 9.5 %
- Guns: 6,785 tons, 9.5 %
Armour: 27,409 tons, 38.2 %
- Belts: 9,568 tons, 13.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,677 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 5,852 tons, 8.2 %
- Armour Deck: 9,801 tons, 13.7 %
- Conning Tower: 513 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,160 tons, 5.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 24,270 tons, 33.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,602 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 540 tons, 0.8 %
- Hull below water: 140 tons
- On freeboard deck: 300 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
106,585 lbs / 48,346 Kg = 38.3 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 18.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 8.5 ft / 2.6 m
Roll period: 18.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.595 / 0.602
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Forward deck: 28.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Aft deck: 33.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Quarter deck: 17.00 %, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m, 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Average freeboard: 22.93 ft / 6.99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.1 %
Waterplane Area: 83,511 Square feet or 7,758 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 246 lbs/sq ft or 1,200 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.19
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Armor belt is a 100mm decapping plate, backed up by a 420mm main belt. Upper belt and end belts are extensions of the decapping plate.


80 tons reserved for aircraft
60 tons reserved for flag accomodations
100 tons reserved for radar and fire control
300 tons reserved for growth



Sachsen, German Battleship laid down 1935 (WIP Resim by BruceDuncan)

Displacement: 63,809 t light; 67,079 t standard; 71,735 t normal; 75,459 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

908.05 ft / 885.83 ft x 126.31 ft x 39.44 ft (normal load)
276.77 m / 270.00 m x 38.50 m x 12.02 m

Armament:

9 - 17.72" / 450 mm guns (3x3 guns), 3,306.93lbs / 1,500.00kg shells, 1935 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (6x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1925 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on side, evenly spread
22 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (11x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1928 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
40 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (20x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
64 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (26 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1928 Model Machine guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 16 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 32,470 lbs / 14,728 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 20.5" / 520 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 345.44 ft / 105.29 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 2.46 ft / 0.75 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

Torpedo Bulkhead: 2.36" / 60 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 35.50 ft / 10.82 m

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 23.6" / 600 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 17.7" / 450 mm
2nd: 4.72" / 120 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Armour deck: 7.09" / 180 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 136,476 shp / 101,811 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,379 tons

Complement: 2,191 - 2,849

Cost: £28.957 million / $115.828 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 3,466 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 28,329 tons, 39.5 %
- Belts: 9,572 tons, 13.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,677 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 5,714 tons, 8.0 %
- Armour Deck: 10,854 tons, 15.1 %
- Conning Tower: 513 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,877 tons, 5.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 27,596 tons, 38.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,925 tons, 11.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 540 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 17,060 lbs / 53,098 Kg = 42.1 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 21.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 8.7 ft / 2.7 m
Roll period: 18.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.569
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 34.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forecastle (22 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Quarterdeck (17 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Stern: 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Average freeboard: 22.93 ft / 6.99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.2 %
Waterplane Area: 82,793 Square feet or 7,692 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 251 lbs/sq ft or 1,225 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 1.03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
Several differences I am aware of – SS 2.1 does not allow for calibre of guns to be specified nor shell weight; I have had to simplify the layout of the armament as SS 2.1 does not have sufficient options to specify the mix of twin and quad mounts Hrolf specified in the light AA outfit. The Block Coefficient is different between the two designs – the BC in my resim is derived by inputting the normal displacement of Hrolf’s sim into my own, rather than selecting his BC; I have tried that and found that the light displacement is at variance by nearly 3,000 tons instead of some 600 tons. The weight distribution seems quite off.

1) To clarify; You can specify weight for the main armament in 2.1. Specifying shell weight for the secondaries and lighter is unlikely to alter the sim too much (or at all), so I wouldn't worry much about it.

2) You could sim the light AA outfit in two different fields, if you have the room, to account for the mix of twins and quads, but that's not really neccesary.

3) If the ships have been fully paid for, the primary focus and goal should be on the light tonnage, as that's the main game mechanic at stake here. If they're not completed, I'd say a minor discrepency isn't a major problem, so long the difference is paid for before completion.

And lastly...I suppose let this be a reminder to all our players who've been using SS3.0 anyway, that the mods have never approved it, and the sim still officially uses SS2.1. Hoo's appearently making rounds and comments whenever he finds a SS3 sim, so feel free to help out and check your own encyclopedias.

Thank you!

I missed that I can change the default values for the armament in SS 2.1. I have incorporated the shell weights from Hrolf's sim, but that makes very little difference indeed.

One of the reasons I cannot match the armament layout of Hrolf's sim is lack of room - the ships have five different calibre weapons and SS 2.1 only has five slots for armament.

The ships are still under construction, so any tonnage change can be accounted for - right now my WIP sim is 741 tons heavier in light tonnage than Hrolf's. If I am missing something that might reduce that variance, I will be quite happy to fix it.

If the total number of barrels and total number of mounts is equal, I don´t care what everage barrel per mount SS2.1 calculates. With a picture of the ship, everybody can easily identify the layout...

Quoted

And lastly...I suppose let this be a reminder to all our players who've been using SS3.0 anyway, that the mods have never approved it, and the sim still officially uses SS2.1. Hoo's appearently making rounds and comments whenever he finds a SS3 sim, so feel free to help out and check your own encyclopedias.

Indeed.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
If the total number of barrels and total number of mounts is equal, I don´t care what everage barrel per mount SS2.1 calculates. With a picture of the ship, everybody can easily identify the layout...

I suggested to Bruce privately that the correct breakdown of the gun mounts be placed in the notes.

At TheCanadian's suggestion, and with Brock's guidance, I made some minor adjustments to the sim's miscellaneous weight and bunkers to reach the same value for light tonnage, on the same dimensions, as Hrolf's original SS3 sim. I have appended this new WIP below for comment. Thank you for all your suggestions so far, and if you see any other potential improvements or corrections, please speak up.

Sachsen, German Battleship laid down 1935

Displacement: 63,165 t light; 66,435 t standard; 71,735 t normal; 75,974 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

908.05 ft / 885.83 ft x 126.31 ft x 39.44 ft (normal load) [276.77 m / 270.00 m x 38.50 m x 12.02 m]

Armament:

9 - 17.72" / 450 mm guns (3x3 guns), 3,306.93lbs / 1,500.00kg shells, 1935 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (6x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1925 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on side, evenly spread
22 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (11x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1928 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
40 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (20x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
64 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (26 mounts), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1928 Model Machine guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 16 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 32,470 lbs / 14,728 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 20.5" / 520 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 345.44 ft / 105.29 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 2.46 ft / 0.75 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

Torpedo Bulkhead: 2.36" / 60 mm 540.35 ft / 164.70 m 35.50 ft / 10.82 m

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 23.6" / 600 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 17.7" / 450 mm
2nd: 4.72" / 120 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Armour deck: 7.09" / 180 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 136,476 shp / 101,811 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 13,800nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,539 tons

Complement: 2,191 - 2,849

Cost: £28.842 million / $115.368 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 3,466 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 28,329 tons, 39.5 %
- Belts: 9,572 tons, 13.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,677 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 5,714 tons, 8.0 %
- Armour Deck: 10,854 tons, 15.1 %
- Conning Tower: 513 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,877 tons, 5.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 26,792 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,570 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 700 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 116,635 lbs / 52,905 Kg = 41.9 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 21.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 8.7 ft / 2.7 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.569
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.01: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 34.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forecastle (22 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Quarterdeck (17 %): 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Stern: 21.98 ft / 6.70 m
- Average freeboard: 22.93 ft / 6.99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.2 %
Waterplane Area: 82,793 Square feet or 7,692 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 243 lbs/sq ft or 1,189 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.27
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Details of armament layout (taken from Hrolf's original SS3 sim)

9 - 17.72" / 450 mm Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model, 3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 5.91" / 150 mm Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model, 6x3 gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
22 - 4.13" / 105 mm Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1928 Model, 10x2 mounts on sides, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts, plus 1x2 mount on centreline, aft deck centre, 1 raised mount
40 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1929 Model, 18x2 mounts on sides, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts, plus 2x2 mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 double raised mounts
64 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model, 12 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts,4 x 2 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread, 4 double raised mounts

Armour belt is a 100mm decapping plate, backed up by a 420mm main belt. Upper belt and end belts are extensions of the decapping plate.

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight

80 tons reserved for aircraft
60 tons reserved for flag accommodations
100 tons reserved for radar and fire control
460 tons reserved for growth

Looks about right...