WesWorld

I remember some Chinese tanks with 50mm and 75mm guns being used in the Persian Civil War, but the Chinese encyclopedia doesn't seem to list any of them. Seeing as they've been in use for over two years, can those specs be posted in the appropriate places, please?

The tanks used in the Persian Civil War were prototypes !! But you are right ... two years are gone ... the test is ended ... so it's time to present the serial tank in the ency.

As a general rule-of-thumb, I'd suggest any tank, plane, or other similar peice of equipment used in a story (beyond true internal testing) have a listing in the appropriate encyclopedias.

I know Canada's a bit behind in having it's Army section filled in, but I'm working on it.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
As a general rule-of-thumb, I'd suggest any tank, plane, or other similar peice of equipment used in a story (beyond true internal testing) have a listing in the appropriate encyclopedias.

Good idea.

Any who is paying me the guy who does all this for me when I do not have the time? ;o)

I think all the tanks the RSAA used in the war are posted, though. The Chinese tanks were used in the Persian Civil War, but Vuk and I searched a long time the other night for the specs and couldn't find any... still, we know they're pretty serious tanks from their combat record.

Ts ts ts .... may be Vuk is getting old and couldn't remember, that he painted the tanks for me .

I discussed the stats in our top-secret SATSUMA-Thread and will present them this weekend in my ency !!!

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Originally posted by parador
Ts ts ts .... may be Vuk is getting old and couldn't remember, that he painted the tanks for me .

I discussed the stats in our top-secret SATSUMA-Thread and will present them this weekend in my ency !!!

Well I am getting old and did the tanks but the stats?

Here are the stats of the tanks, used in the Persian Civil War ... but i have to look which one will now be in serial production and may be i have some drawings (or Vuk may be you have some, because the original link didn't work anymore) ..

Legionaire II:
Crew: 5
Weight: 26 tons
Length: 6620
Width: 3950
Height: 3120
Armour: 30-75mm
Armament: 75mm Canon L/50
two 7,92mm MG34
Speed: 40 km/h
Range: 120 km


Paladin I:
Crew:5
Armament: 75mm Canon L/50
Weight: 32,000 Kg
Engine: 300 Hp
Speed (on road): 35 Km/h
Range: 150 km
Front Turret/superstructure/hull: 50 mm
Side Turret/superstructure/hull: 30 mm
Rear Turret: 25 mm
Hull Top & Bottom 20 & 35 mm
Turret/Superstructure top: 25 mm


Taifun I:
Crew: 5
Weight: 22,3 tons
Dimensions:
Length 6410
Wide 2950
Height 2510
Armour: 30 - 60 mm
Armament: 50 mm Canon 37 L/60
two 7,92 mm MG34
Speed (on road): 40 km/h
Range: 150 km


Qinglong I:
Weight: 30tons
Crew: 5
Dimensions:
Length 6580
Wide 3800
Height 3050
Armour: 26 - 80 mm
Armament: 75 mm Canon L/24
one 7,92 mm MG34
Speed: 60 km/h

parador PM sent

I should add that i am a bit unsure which tanks were part of the Chinese competition (pics) so anyone have saved them or can describe the tanks are welcome to enlighten me

HI Vuk, i will check my PC.

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
Here are the stats of the tanks, used in the Persian Civil War ... but i have to look which one will now be in serial production and may be i have some drawings (or Vuk may be you have some, because the original link didn't work anymore) ..

So which one fought in the Persian Civil War?

Eh, they all did

Yes all of them were tested to find the "best" heavy tank. I have to check how many prototypes were built for the persian war.

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
Yes all of them were tested to find the "best" heavy tank. I have to check how many prototypes were built for the persian war.

Would you like my personal opinions?

Sure ... please tell me !!! Or send me a PM

Quoted

Legionaire II:
Crew: 5
Weight: 26 tons
Length: 6620
Width: 3950
Height: 3120
Armour: 30-75mm
Armament: 75mm Canon L/50
two 7,92mm MG34
Speed: 40 km/h
Range: 120 km

The gun is twice the length of the original Legionnaire, with more armour; yet the weight has only risen by two tons. I find this a bit suspicious.

Quoted

Paladin I:
Crew:5
Armament: 75mm Canon L/50
Weight: 32,000 Kg
Engine: 300 Hp
Speed (on road): 35 Km/h
Range: 150 km
Front Turret/superstructure/hull: 50 mm
Side Turret/superstructure/hull: 30 mm
Rear Turret: 25 mm
Hull Top & Bottom 20 & 35 mm
Turret/Superstructure top: 25 mm

This tank is slower and has less armour than the Legionnaire, but weighs six tons more (despite having the same gun). On the other hand, I feel the Paladin I has a more correct weight and more possibilities.

Quoted

Taifun I:
Crew: 5
Weight: 22,3 tons
Dimensions:
Length 6410
Wide 2950
Height 2510
Armour: 30 - 60 mm
Armament: 50 mm Canon 37 L/60
two 7,92 mm MG34
Speed (on road): 40 km/h
Range: 150 km

If China is holding a contest for a heavy tank... um, this isn't a heavy tank. Maybe in 1935 it could have been a heavy tank, but not 1938-1940.

Quoted

Qinglong I:
Weight: 30tons
Crew: 5
Dimensions:
Length 6580
Wide 3800
Height 3050
Armour: 26 - 80 mm
Armament: 75 mm Canon L/24
one 7,92 mm MG34
Speed: 60 km/h

The speed on this tank is fast... to what I feel is an extremely unreasonable extent. If this had a lower speed (say 40-45km/h), a higher-velocity gun (say 75mm/L40) and the Paladin I's weight, I think it'd be the most realistic of the four tanks, and the one most likely to deliver on the writeup from Group Dragon's participation in the PCW.

Overall, it seems like the Chinese Army didn't really give their designers much in the way of ironclad specifications to meet, because they've got some radically divergent designs that don't seem to adhere to a cohesive tank theory. If you'll pardon my blunt opinion.

Brock you dont seem to have read the PCW posts very carefully as all four tanks are mentioned.

Parador, looking at the stats and what is in service around you I suggest you drop them and issue a new specification (more detailed) with heavier armor and perhaps a longer gun

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Brock you dont seem to have read the PCW posts very carefully as all four tanks are mentioned.

I am, in fact, well aware that all four tanks were mentioned in the Persian Civil War writeup, but based on the specs presented here, they appear to me to be rather over-hyped in the Persian Civil War combat, hence my statement.

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Parador, looking at the stats and what is in service around you I suggest you drop them and issue a new specification (more detailed) with heavier armor and perhaps a longer gun

I think this is good advice - mostly because none of these tanks are really "heavy tanks": the Legionnaire II is more of a medium tank, the Paladin I is an infantry tank, the Taifun I is a cruiser tank, and the Qinglong I is a cruiser tank with overoptimistic speed. None are really "heavy tanks" as I see them.

Does China really need such super-heavy tanks?
Making an even larger generation when one of these tanks has only just entered production seems wasteful. How many designs can China afford to keep designing and throwing away?

Paladin and Taifun would make a fair heavy/ medium combo for the Chinese Army and could deal with the current Russian threat. I see no reason for China to go down the India route and start fielding 90mm guns and 200mm thick armour just for the hell of it.

We need to stop re-inventing the wheel and getting into this weird vicious cycle especially given the lack of real armoured combat in WW on a big scale.