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HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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1

Saturday, July 3rd 2004, 12:31pm

Nice weekend

Hi folks,

here´s some eye candy for you.

Have a nice weekend,

HoOmAn




DL34-C, South African Flotilla Leader laid down 1934

Displacement:
3.126 t light; 3.242 t standard; 3.738 t normal; 4.119 t full load
Loading submergence 315 tons/feet

Dimensions:
442,91 ft x 45,93 ft x 16,08 ft (normal load)
135,00 m x 14,00 m x 4,90 m

Armament:
10 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (5 Main turrets x 2 guns, 3 superfiring turrets)
16 - 1,57" / 40 mm AA guns
18 - 0,79" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 500 lbs / 227 kg
4 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 1,97" / 50 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 154% of normal area
Main turrets 1,57" / 40 mm, AA gun shields 0,98" / 25 mm, Light gun shields 0,98" / 25 mm
Armour deck 0,59" / 15 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 58.981 shp / 44.000 Kw = 33,35 kts
Range 7.200nm at 15,00 kts

Complement:
239 - 310

Cost:
£1,912 million / $7,647 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 62 tons, 1,7%
Armour: 537 tons, 14,4%
Belts: 292 tons, 7,8%, Armament: 125 tons, 3,3%, Armour Deck: 120 tons, 3,2%
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 1.626 tons, 43,5%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 901 tons, 24,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 612 tons, 16,4%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Metacentric height 2,1

Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,19
Shellfire needed to sink: 1.102 lbs / 500 Kg = 23,8 x 4,5 " / 115 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0,5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 71 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,35
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,400
Sharpness coefficient: 0,30
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8,73
'Natural speed' for length: 21,05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim: 71
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 153,5%
Relative accommodation and working space: 126,5%
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 84%
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0,50
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 44 lbs / square foot or 214 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 0,93
(for 16,67 ft / 5,08 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 4,23 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0,53

2

Saturday, July 3rd 2004, 3:25pm

wow! Anybody have historic Dido's data to hand? I like this ship. Nice weekend Hoo!

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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3

Saturday, July 3rd 2004, 4:32pm

;o)

Glad you like her...

On DIDO browse:
http://warships.web4u.cz/lode.php?langua…=CLA&trida=Dido

Seers....

4

Saturday, July 3rd 2004, 7:00pm

She is very similar to one of my own designs. Mine has its own obvious origins. I'm not sure about your decision to put belt and deck armour on her is wise. I don't think that it is really needed. Shells below 130mm are going to be mostly HE anyway.

How did you get the wooden deck effect? lots of time?




Italian Light cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
3,403 t light; 3,528 t standard; 3,996 t normal; 4,354 t full load
Loading submergence 317 tons/feet

Dimensions:
459.32 ft x 44.62 ft x 17.06 ft (normal load)
140.00 m x 13.60 m x 5.20 m

Armament:
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4 Main turrets x 2 guns, 2 superfiring turrets)
4 - 1.46" / 37 mm AA guns
Weight of broadside 542 lbs / 246 kg
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Main turrets 0.79" / 20 mm
Conning tower 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 74,000 shp / 55,204 Kw = 35.08 kts
37.55knts (light)
Range 3,000nm at 20.00 kts

Complement:
251 - 326

Cost:
£1.611 million / $6.443 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 68 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 67 tons, 1.7 %
Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Armament: 52 tons, 1.3 %, Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,258 tons, 56.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 980 tons, 24.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 593 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 0.8 %

Metacentric height 3.0

Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.52
Shellfire needed to sink: 816 lbs / 370 Kg = 12.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.4
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 51 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.27
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.400
Sharpness coefficient: 0.29
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8.85
'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim: 51
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 196.0 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 103.0 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 73 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.51
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs / square foot or 223 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 0.98
(for 16.73 ft / 5.10 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 4.13 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.55

37.55knts (light)

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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5

Sunday, July 4th 2004, 12:25am

Similarities

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
She is very similar to one of my own designs. Mine has its own obvious origins.


I guess you are refering to the Condottieris? Or the CAPITANI ROMANIs? Or the MOGADORs?

To be honest, I´m not sure if I really see what her origin is... :o)


Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
I'm not sure about your decision to put belt and deck armour on her is wise. I don't think that it is really needed. Shells below 130mm are going to be mostly HE anyway.


She´s meant to be a more like a cruiser than a DD and her decent armor should make her bullet proof against 5" HE shells. What´s wrong with that? She´s m ore expansive than a DD so I have to make sure I won´t loose her against one...

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
How did you get the wooden deck effect? lots of time?


Actually, the programm I use offers some features MS Paint doesn´t have. ;o) So I´ve fooled around with several functions and good some interesting effects...

How do you rate your design against mine and why? Obviously mine is 10 years younger offering some advantage but on the other hand is still some 300ts smaller...

Regards,

HoOmAn

6

Sunday, July 4th 2004, 1:02pm

I actually started with the Capitani Romani design but i suppose it has got a bit distorted over time. I'd like to use 135mm guns, but limited to 130mm by treaty for destroyers there doesn't seem much point.

Mine is also more of a light cruiser than a destroyer leader. Armour is useful for these ships but i prefer the speed. Mine did actually have more armour but then i cut it down. I put a 20mm upper belt with a 12mm armour deck. I thought this would be more useful because at close ranges shells are going to be hitting the superstructure and upper decks.

As for rating the designs against each other; yes yours is newer and would probably win in a firefight. However, for chasing down and destroying coastal convoys, and as a screen for a fleet, I feel the extra speed and larger guns are more useful. She also has a heavy punch with torpedoes.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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7

Monday, July 5th 2004, 6:01pm

I like your idea to combine an armored upper belt with an armored deck to protect a vessel against light shells at everything above short range. The longer the range the less likely normal belt hits will become...

What are those 30ts misc weight for?

Cheers,

HoOmAn

8

Monday, July 5th 2004, 6:11pm

I would say the 30 tons are for TPP:
Torpedoes, Pizzas and Pasta.

9

Monday, July 5th 2004, 9:16pm

Walter is correct.

Full reload for the torpedoes á 2tons each=16tons

That leaves 14t left for crew comforts.

10

Monday, July 5th 2004, 9:35pm

If the remaining 14 tons are for Pizzas and Pasta, you should subtract that from the light displacement to get 3,389 tons.
You mentioned "Food is included in the fuel ammo and stores" in a mail to me. Since Pizzas and Pasta are food as well, the 14 tons miscellaneous weight for the P & P are actually part of the stores and (if I am not mistaken) stores are not included in the light displacement.
14 tons is not that much to worry about, but you never know what kind of 14 ton torpedo-armed rowingboat you will design in the future.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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11

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 9:14am

P&P

Are you sure P&P should be rated as food?

You know, we´re talking Italy here. P&P could very well be the italian way to conquer the world - accourding to RA´s latest plans!

12

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 2:49pm

"When our sailors hit your eye, with a big pizza pie..."

13

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 4:28pm

Well, if we can prove that the P&P are used as weapons, we should look at them more closely, especially the Pizza-guns. Should the Pizza exceed 6 inches, it can no longer be rated as a Light Cruiser, and in the event that the Pizza is bigger than 8.2, the ship wil have to be rated as a Capital Ship. When it exceeds 15 inches, the ship will be in violation of the Cleito Treaty.

14

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 4:38pm

A gun-fired pizza might not make an effective weapon, as the pie, travelling perpedicular to its surface, would have a very low shell-form factor.

A pizza-launcher, flinging the pies like a frisbee, would probably acheive a better range; moreover, the treaty doesn't govern pizza-launcher, depth-charge launchers, and the like, making it possible to use extra-large pizzas.

One can only speculate on the use of meatballs as anti-air ammunition or the use of lasagna noodles as hull patches...

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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15

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 4:49pm

...and there goes another thread hijacked...

Do american ice-cones count as capped and do they have a better penetration power than cork fired from french champagner guns?

Just curious...

16

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 5:42pm

Well, the American ice-cone would have better penetrating power as long as it is intact. But as anti-personnel weapon the ice-cone would be in violation of the Hague Convention.

But to get back (hopefully) to the main subject of this thread, nice work on your ship, HoOmAn. You're going to use that deck for your other ships as well?

Walter

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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17

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 5:47pm

Wodden deck

Well, I got some nice feedback on that wooden deck. All positive. So yes, I´m going to use this in the future.

(If I can force the algorithm to produce a similar output, that is.)

Why do you ask?

Regards,

HoOmAn

PS: What do you think about having such a background? Looks a lot like a skinned a cow, eh?

18

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 5:54pm

My apologies, I got carried away with weapons of mass consumption.

It's a great drawing. No miscelleanous weight set aside for flotilla command facilities?

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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19

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 6:02pm

Misc weight

Pretty good question, Doc. :o/ To be honest, I missed that.

However, the design as posted is at the edge of what is possible. I could add 8ts of misc weight - for whatever it´s worth - but more than that will make her cross-sec hs drop below 0,5... When reducing her 40mm gun shields to 15mm and those for the 20mm guns to 10mm I can increase misc weight to 12ts. A trade you´d make?

Regards,

HoOmAn

20

Tuesday, July 6th 2004, 6:14pm

Quoted

Why do you ask?

Cause it looks nice.
But since you mentioned:

Quoted

(If I can force the algorithm to produce a similar output, that is.)

... I assume you did not keep and untouched sample of the deck to make it more simple to utilize it for the other ships.