WesWorld

White Star's Olympic II appears to hold the Blue Riband. After considering their options, the French Line decides to let them have it, and instead builds their ship to carry more people in more comfort for less cost. She will sail in late 1942 or early 1943.

[SIZE=3]SS France, French Ocean Liner laid down 1939[/SIZE]

Displacement:
77,017 t light; 79,000 t standard; 99,157 t normal; 115,282 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
1,309.22 ft / 1,263.12 ft x 126.31 ft x 33.46 ft (normal load)
399.05 m / 385.00 m x 38.50 m x 10.20 m

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 6 shafts, 367,538 shp / 274,183 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 35.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 36,283 tons

Complement:
2,793 - 3,632

Cost:
£23.783 million / $95.133 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 9,944 tons, 10.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 35,572 tons, 35.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 22,140 tons, 22.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 31,500 tons, 31.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
227,745 lbs / 103,304 Kg = 2,108.8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 7.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 8.8 ft / 2.7 m
Roll period: 17.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 39.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 59.06 ft / 18.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 52.49 ft / 16.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 52.49 ft / 16.00 m
- Stern: 52.49 ft / 16.00 m
- Average freeboard: 53.90 ft / 16.43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 463.1 %
Waterplane Area: 127,514 Square feet or 11,846 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 193 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 815 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.01
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weights:
- 9,000 tons for 450 1st Class passengers (20t/passenger)
- 5,000 tons for 500 2nd Class passengers (10t/passenger)
- 7,000 tons for 1,400 3rd Class passengers (5t/passenger)
- 5,000 tons for onboard cargo
- 5,450 tons for extras
- 50 tons for for radar, collision-warning gizmos, electronics, etc

And a smaller liner for the Franco-Atlantean run. (France vows never to send her to Halifax.)

[SIZE=3]Mont Blanc, French Ocean Liner laid down 1940[/SIZE]

Displacement:
31,907 t light; 32,765 t standard; 42,862 t normal; 50,940 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
829.45 ft / 787.40 ft x 98.43 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
252.82 m / 240.00 m x 30.00 m x 10.00 m

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 217,338 shp / 162,134 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 34.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 18,175 tons

Complement:
1,489 - 1,936

Cost:
£11.582 million / $46.328 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 5,811 tons, 13.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,596 tons, 36.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 10,955 tons, 25.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10,500 tons, 24.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
92,469 lbs / 41,943 Kg = 856.2 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.590
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 31
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 55.77 ft / 17.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 52.49 ft / 16.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 49.21 ft / 15.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 49.21 ft / 15.00 m
- Stern: 49.21 ft / 15.00 m
- Average freeboard: 50.62 ft / 15.43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 374.0 %
Waterplane Area: 58,513 Square feet or 5,436 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 194 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 629 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 6.14
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weights:
- 4,000 tons for 200 1st Class passengers (20t/passenger)
- 2,500 tons for 250 2nd Class passengers (10t/passenger)
- 2,500 tons for 500 3rd Class passengers (5t/passenger)
- 1,450 tons for "extras"
- 50 tons for for radar, collision-warning gizmos, electronics, etc

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
And a smaller liner for the Franco-Atlantean run. (France vows never to send her to Halifax.)

[SIZE=3]Mont Blanc, French Ocean Liner laid down 1940[/SIZE]

And Canada vows never to let her near Halifax. Or any other Canadian port.

How about SS La Touraine or SS Liberté then?

Regarding the France, I have to wonder if she will prove too large for the traffic to bear. I realize that the absence of a Great Depression will mean that there is more passenger traffic on the North Atlantic route, but is the US allowing that much immigration at this point? If not, the third class (steerage) is going to go begging.

Now, of course, if you think of them as troop accomodations, you get another answer.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
Regarding the France, I have to wonder if she will prove too large for the traffic to bear.

Possibly. A ship the size of the Mont Blanc/Libertie is probably better.

I find speeds of 34/35 knots a bit unrealistic. Too expensive.

Normandie and Marianne were built to be more economical to operate than their major competitors. So the Brit Nd Canadian operators will go belly-up long before the French liner operators will.

This is just tightening the competitive screws a bit more.

Well, that machinery is more powerful than the one installed OTL USS IOWA and is working on six shafts. That sounds like a very complex, very expensive investment that I would expect to make a lot of troubles in permanent service realistically. And given the fact that her range is given in maximum speed it seems you are planning for that ship to run at that speed for a long period of time - which indicates a lot of stress. Much more so than on the plant used for Iowa.

The only ship ever really build to comparable stats is the United States, right? But as far as I know that ship never earned a single dime and could only be maintained because she was paid for by the government to have a troop transport in case of emergency....

My first stab at SS France was intended to be a Blue Riband competitor with 50 knots speed; then 45 knots when there were, shall we say "problems". I've never seriously bothered trying to sim a Blue Riband liner before, so I'm mostly interested in seeing how it is done and seeing the reactions it gets. In fairness, between the French Line, White Star, Cunard, the Germans, and the American Line, the market's probably oversaturated anyway.

Hoo, the SS France has less shp than Canis' SS United States (380,734 shp) and ShinRa's RMS Olympic (448,071 shp). Those ships also have 6 shafts. So compared to those, it should not be too bad.

Quoted

Normandie and Marianne were built to be more economical to operate than their major competitors. So the Brit Nd Canadian operators will go belly-up long before the French liner operators will.

Quite agree. That's why I went with a significantly lower speed with the Floating Palace. The faster the ship goes, the more fuel is wasted, the more money must be spend on refueling the ship. So in order to make money with such a vessel, you either raise the price so much that very few will be able to afford, or you will have to travel at a slower economic speed which would make the high-speed machinery useless.

Quoted

My first stab at SS France was intended to be a Blue Riband competitor with 50 knots speed

Now that is insane.

Quoted

In fairness, between the French Line, White Star, Cunard, the Germans, and the American Line, the market's probably oversaturated anyway.

So it is quite a competitive market. Cutthroat tactics, ruthless advertising, etc. Looking at what Adm. K said, the economical vessels will fare better than the less economical ones in the long run.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Hoo, the SS France has less shp than Canis' SS United States (380,734 shp) and ShinRa's RMS Olympic (448,071 shp). Those ships also have 6 shafts. So compared to those, it should not be too bad.

I rate those as not realistc anyway and so I ignore them.

The France is close enough to be realistic - if only her speed would be a bit lower (32-33kn) and her range not calculated at max speed, indicating she could go that far at that speed.

Quoted

I rate those as not realistc anyway and so I ignore them.

Not sure why you do when it comes to the SS United States. IIRC, Canis was going along the lines of the historical SS United States with his sim, something that could not be properly simmed with Springsharp though.

Bit larger than the historical design, but looks almost the same. The six shafts seems excessive and the drawing will show four even if the sim says otherwise.

SS United States, United States Ocean Liner laid down 1940

Displacement:
50,656 t light; 52,030 t standard; 68,725 t normal; 82,081 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
1,040.34 ft / 1,000.00 ft x 110.00 ft x 37.00 ft (normal load)
317.10 m / 304.80 m x 33.53 m x 11.28 m

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 6 shafts, 380,734 shp / 284,027 Kw = 36.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 36.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 30,051 tons

Complement:
2,121 - 2,758

Cost:
£19.189 million / $76.756 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 10,180 tons, 14.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 21,576 tons, 31.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 18,069 tons, 26.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 18,900 tons, 27.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
115,450 lbs / 52,367 Kg = 1,069.0 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.591
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 60.00 ft / 18.29 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 50.00 ft / 15.24 m
- Mid (50 %): 45.00 ft / 13.72 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 32.00 ft / 9.75 m (40.00 ft / 12.19 m before break)
- Stern: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Average freeboard: 44.30 ft / 13.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 322.4 %
Waterplane Area: 79,778 Square feet or 7,412 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 175 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 750 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.19
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Cargo: 2800 tons
Passengers: 2000 (500 1st Class, 1500 Tourist Class) 11.2 tons per 1st Class, 7 tons per Tourist Class

Hello. And please tell me where you have all this information on the liner SS France 1939? What are some books about ships and the remaining in the project? Or with any public forum on airliners and the remaining in the project? I look forward to your reply. With respect to you, Sergey

Sergey, these liners are fictional for the purposes of this RPG. They are not real ships and Springsharp cannot acurately sim ships like liners.