WesWorld

Thailand recently acquired three coastal defense ships from Italy along with two CVs. These three ships are in bad need of more AA among other things. My plan is that two of them will undergo a AA refit (25% refit) and one of them will get a more complete rebuild (50% rebuild) Springsharps are below. I think i got them rule compliant, but if there are errors let me know.

EDIT: original SS here http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=8695&sid=

Thonburi (50% rebuild), Thai Light Battleship laid down 1922 (Engine 1942)

Displacement:
9,080 t light; 9,607 t standard; 11,124 t normal; 12,338 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
508.84 ft / 492.13 ft x 65.62 ft (Bulges 80.38 ft) x 16.40 ft (normal load)
155.09 m / 150.00 m x 20.00 m (Bulges 24.50 m) x 5.00 m

Armament:
6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1922 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1922 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,518 lbs / 1,596 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.27" / 210 mm 262.47 ft / 80.00 m 9.71 ft / 2.96 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.27" / 210 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 34,956 shp / 26,077 Kw = 23.98 kts
Range 20,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,731 tons

Complement:
541 - 704

Cost:
£2.223 million / $8.891 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 440 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 3,285 tons, 29.5 %
- Belts: 944 tons, 8.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 578 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,720 tons, 15.5 %
- Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 913 tons, 8.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,242 tons, 38.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,044 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20,173 lbs / 9,150 Kg = 40.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.12 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (40 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.19 ft / 5.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.3 %
Waterplane Area: 23,618 Square feet or 2,194 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 595 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.36
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Misc Weight breakdown: 125 tons for Aviation Facilities (Two Ar-196 spoter planes, two catapults, fuel and spair parts)
50 tons Fire controle additions (Anti-aircraft Directors, backup plotting table, additional radios)
20 tons flag faclities and acomidations
5 tons reserve

Time for refit: 9 months
Cost: 4540 tons

Thonburi (25% refit), Thai Light Battleship laid down 1922

Displacement:
7,804 t light; 8,288 t standard; 9,989 t normal; 11,350 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
508.84 ft / 492.13 ft x 65.62 ft (Bulges 72.18 ft) x 16.40 ft (normal load)
155.09 m / 150.00 m x 20.00 m (Bulges 22.00 m) x 5.00 m

Armament:
6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1922 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1922 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,315 lbs / 1,504 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 262.47 ft / 80.00 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32,000 shp / 23,872 Kw = 23.98 kts
Range 20,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,061 tons

Complement:
499 - 649

Cost:
£2.109 million / $8.435 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 414 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 2,230 tons, 22.3 %
- Belts: 640 tons, 6.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 358 tons, 3.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,204 tons, 12.1 %
- Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,085 tons, 10.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,885 tons, 38.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,185 tons, 21.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 190 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,714 lbs / 7,582 Kg = 33.4 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 14.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (40 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.19 ft / 5.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.7 %
Waterplane Area: 23,618 Square feet or 2,194 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 562 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.39
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Misc Weight breakdown: 125 tons for Aviation Facilities (Two Ar-196 spoter planes, two catapults, fuel and spair parts)
50 tons Fire controle additions (Anti-aircraft Directors, backup plotting table, additional radios)
10 tons flag faclities and acomidations
5 tons reserve

Time for refit: 4.2 months
Cost: 1951 tons

Finally got around to evaluating these.

Of the two, I think I'd prefer the improved armour and secondaries of the 50% refit. I'd raise the steadiness to 70% - the only change I'd make.

I like the 50% better as well, but I only have limited tonnage to work with and only one Drydock capable of holding these ships. The plan is to bring two of them in over the course of 1941 for the 25% refit just to get there AA improved. The third would get the 50% refit in 1942. That gives a nice rotation of ships getting refitted as the 25% includes life-extension of the components already there. Eventually, the other two could be brought up to the 50% standard if deemed necessary.

Quoted

Originally posted by snip
I like the 50% better as well, but I only have limited tonnage to work with and only one Drydock capable of holding these ships. The plan is to bring two of them in over the course of 1941 for the 25% refit just to get there AA improved. The third would get the 50% refit in 1942. That gives a nice rotation of ships getting refitted as the 25% includes life-extension of the components already there. Eventually, the other two could be brought up to the 50% standard if deemed necessary.

That would be highly inefficient. I'd expect any refit you give to these ships to be expected to last 10-20 years before another is needed, or they're disposed of. The large dock in Singapore may be availible for rent, if doing them one at a time is insufficient. Or check with other neighbors and allies.

I could always leave the ships as is for the remainder of 1940 and all of 1941 and do the 50% refits at the rate of one a year. Im sure I could bug AEGIS for the dockspace, but the tonnage would be a bottleneck. I also dont want the core of my "battleline" out of action all at once. Choices, choices...

50% refits, one per year is the best option. Why waste resources now on interim bits. Better to do waht you want and live with the cost consequences later. I'm sure AEGIS would forward you tonnage even on a loan basis. With all the tensions in the region I'm sure they have good reason to give you every assistance they can.

The Netherlands has a pair of Type 2 dry docks in DEI and could dedicate the one in Medan for Siamese purposes. The other they would wish to keep clear for potential repair issues.

Alternately, you could approach Italy to contract one, as they built the ships.

As for which option - I prefer the 25%- which is also the cost of refurbishment. The 50% is a nice rebuild, but the difference is equal to a large destroyer each.

Both options offer similar AA capacity. Both options beat treaty heavy cruisers or less. While the 100mm deck may put one theoretically capable of taking on some BCs at longer ranges, that would not be an engagement I would want to partake in.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
The Netherlands has a pair of Type 2 dry docks in DEI and could dedicate the one in Medan for Siamese purposes. The other they would wish to keep clear for potential repair issues.

Alternately, you could approach Italy to contract one, as they built the ships.

As for which option - I prefer the 25%- which is also the cost of refurbishment. The 50% is a nice rebuild, but the difference is equal to a large destroyer each.

Both options offer similar AA capacity. Both options beat treaty heavy cruisers or less. While the 100mm deck may put one theoretically capable of taking on some BCs at longer ranges, that would not be an engagement I would want to partake in.

Hmmmmm...

With the docks, Im sure I could get use of some if I really needed it.

Im thinking that the 25% is looking better at this point as I could put the tonnage used on the 50% refits into some heavy DDs or another CLAA, both of which have more potential then the BBLs for use.