WesWorld

Talleres Nacionales de Construcion Aerea (TNCA)


TNCA continues its fighter program with two new fighter designs, after canceling a previous one. TNCA is alos working on a new fast bomber and improving the Fw-187's:





TNCA C-13 Aguila V


Ultimate development of the Aguila family. Despite the resemblance and use of previous experience the Aguila V is a totally new aircraft borrowing from both the Aguilas and the GW-105. Has a laminar flow wing, Meredith radiator, water-boosted V-1720 engine with two stage supercharger. It is designed to be the ultimate air-to-air fighter, incorporating every lesson to date on aerial combat. Has entered limited service as of January 1940.

Power: Supercharged Curtiss-Mexico Emperor V-1720-5 1,500hp Water boost

Armament: Four 0.5in machine guns (wing)

Size: Wingspan - 32ft
Length - 27ft
Wing area - 240sq ft

Weight: Empty - 5900lb
Max take-off - 7900lb

Performance: Max speed - 440mph
Ceiling - 40,000ft
Range - 700 miles



***




TNCA Mx-105

The last development of the GW Type 105, the MX-105 was canceled with the resources being used in the Aguila V. Ten aircraft where built, some used as testbeds for technology used in the Aguila V.

Type: Single Seat Fighter

Engine: Supercharged Curtiss-Mexico Emperor V-1720-2 1,400hp

Dimensions:
Span: 30ft
Length: 29ft

Max. speed: 390mph @ 20,000 ft
Max. Climb: 2,700 ft/sec
Max. range: 700 miles
Empty: 6,300 lbs
Max Loaded 8,300 lbs

Armament: 4 x 12,7 mm MG, 1 x 25.4mm Cannon


***


Updated Fw-187's with the new Curtiss engine.

TNCA Halcon III/Focke Wulf Fw-187M++

Power: 2x Supercharged Curtiss-Mexico Emperor V-1720-5 1,500hp Water boost

Armament: 2 25mm cannon and 4 .30 caliber MGs in the nose.

Size: Wingspan - 50ft
Length - 37ft
Wing area - 330sq ft

Weight: Empty - 9,500lb
Max take-off - 12,500lb

Performance: Max speed - 440mph
Ceiling - 41,000ft
Range - 1500 miles


***



Note, has a T-tail.

TNCA B-18 Relampago

A single seat fast bomber/recce in the mold of the Mosquito. Basically a bigger bomber version of the Fw-187.

Power: 2x Supercharged Curtiss-Mexico Emperor V-1720-5 1,500hp Water boost

Armament: 4 .30 caliber MGs in the nose. 4,000lb of bombs

Size: Wingspan - 54ft
Length - 44ft
Wing area - 440sq ft

Weight: Empty - 14,000lb
Max take-off - 21,000lb

Performance: Max speed - 410mph
Ceiling - 37,000ft
Range - 1300 miles


***



TNCA C-19 Cobra

TNCA's new fighter design. Uses the Aguila V wing design, but with a new fuselage and turbocharged engine. Designed as a high altitude point defense interceptor, mounting a new very powerful 25.4mm cannon. One prototypes is currently flying, but engine problems have caused delays.

Power: Turbocharged Curtiss-Mexico Emperor V-1720-7 1,500hp

Armament: One 25.4mm cannon nose, two 0.5in machine guns nose

Size: Wingspan - 37ft
Length - 32ft
Wing area - 240sq ft

Weight: Empty - 7,000lb
Max take-off - 10,500lb

Performance: Max speed - 410mph
Ceiling - 45,000ft
Range - 700 miles

Azcarte

Is working on a new bomber program. Problems with the program have lead Azcarte to work on improving the B-23's currently in the FAM inventory as a stopgap measure.



Azcarte B-28 Super Dragon

A new medium bomber (OTL B-28, with no remote turrets & pressurization). A prototype has been flying, but problems with the turbocharged engines have delayed the entire program. The FAM is considering buying licensed built NA B-25's instead.


Power: 2 x Pratt & Whitney R-2800 2,000hp turbocharged

Armament: Seven 0.5in machine guns, 5,000 lbs of bombs

Size: Wingspan - 72ft
Length - 57ft
Wing area - 670sq ft

Weight: Empty - 25,000lb
Max take-off - 35,000lb

Performance: Max speed - 310mph
Ceiling - 30,000ft
Range - 2,100 miles

Aviacion Mexicana

A new company, split of from TNCA. Will build smaller aircraft such as the O-1 Toucan and the O-3 Saltamontes. Its first new design will be a dedicated ground attack aircraft. Derivatives of the design are planned.




AM A-10 Javalina

Dedicated ground attack aircraft built around a version of the 47mm cannon, equivalent to the Hs129. It has entered service as of January 1940.

Power: 2x flat-six aircooled 500hp

Armament: 2 25.4mm cannon and 4 .30 caliber MGs in the nose or 1 47mm cannon and 4 .30 caliber MGs in the nose. 1,000lbs of bombs and rockets.

Size: Wingspan - 47ft
Length - 32ft
Wing area - 310sq ft

Weight: Empty - 9,000lb
Max take-off - 11,200lb

Performance: Max speed - 270mph
Ceiling - 29,000ft
Range - 700 miles


***



Two additional versions of the A-10 are planned. One (first sketch above) will be a maritime patrol/strike aircraft to take out MTB's and such (of which Iberia has too many...). The second version (high wing, T-tail) will be a dedicated battlefield observation aircraft.

Experimental Aircraft

Two experimental aircraft programs are currently underway.



Several gliders are being flown to test tailless design. The goal is to eventually have rocket powered interceptors. Due to the lack of a suitable rocket engine, the prototypes are being flown unpowered to test the aerodynamics.

An outgrow of the pulsejet program, this testbed is a full scale fighter prototype. Due to problems with the pulsejets, the test bed is currently being flown with a piston engine + ramjet configuration.



The actual pulsejet is currently being flown on a modified Aguila III. (note the aircraft is not pulsejet powered, pulsejet provides no benefits to aircraft)

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Aviacion Mexicana

AM A-10 Javalina

Dedicated ground attack aircraft built around a version of the 47mm cannon, equivalent to the Hs129. It has entered service as of January 1940.

Power: 2x flat-six aircooled 500hp

Armament: 2 25.4mm cannon and 4 .30 caliber MGs in the nose or 1 47mm cannon and 4 .30 caliber MGs in the nose. 1,000lbs of bombs and rockets.

Size: Wingspan - 47ft
Length - 32ft
Wing area - 310sq ft

Weight: Empty - 9,000lb
Max take-off - 11,200lb

Performance: Max speed - 270mph
Ceiling - 29,000ft
Range - 700 miles

*IF* this aircraft has the engine power to get off the ground, it will not achieve the cited performance. It is far too underpowered for the claims set forth.

The original Hs129 with Argus engines had 100hp less... Yes this plane is underpowered and will get a new more powerful engine next year.

The cited performance is manufacturer specs...

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Experimental Aircraft

Two experimental aircraft programs are currently underway.



Several gliders are being flown to test tailless design. The goal is to eventually have rocket powered interceptors. Due to the lack of a suitable rocket engine, the prototypes are being flown unpowered to test the aerodynamics.


Note, artist impression of jet fighters. Testbed will be single engined.

Bruce has objected to you to using those designs, and yet you're still doing so.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
An outgrow of the pulsejet program, this testbed is a full scale fighter prototype. Due to problems with the pulsejets, the test bed is currently being flown with a piston engine + ramjet configuration.



The actual pulsejet is currently being flown on a modified Aguila III.

Pulsejets are not covered under the +3 rule; the mods have explicitly told you not to jump the gun on this, and you're still doing so.

The performance of all of them seems pretty optimistic.

The Aguila V seems to be the P-51B, only a little bit smaller and much lighter, despite having a similar engine and aircraft performance, fuel, armament etc. Does Mexico really have the ability for laminar flow wings and meredith effect radiators and a water injected engine and two stage supercharger (only way to get that fast really) and combine it all into a package in next to no time? And all this is at the same time as having 3 other fighter programs that are all resulting in hardware?

I don't see something like the Hs 129 making an effective maritime patrol aircraft. Surely a high wing and t-tail version is a completely separate aircraft?

Not to mention that such a design seems to leave other Italian, German, British, American Argentinian and Atlantean designs in its dust, country's that have been building and designing aircraft since their inception and have the infrastructure to do so.

The Aguila V performance was based on the P-51B and the Spitfire IX. I do have to correct the range because it should be slightly more than the Spit but much less than the P-51B. Laminar flow wings are just a different airfoil shape, and you know that they really don't work as advertised.But they are in style at this point in time so Mexico has to have them. The engine is US designed and built, and the supercharger either US or Atlantean. The program was based on the Aguila III and GW-105M+ so it didn't come out of the blue. The engine and some of the technology appeared in the 1939 Talons Aguila III+.

The Aguila V is TNCA's primary project. The others being canceled or still not advanced. The Cobra will use the Aguila's wing. And the Relampago won't fly until 1941.

Short range patrol in the Caribbean? It's main role would be to shoot up MTB's and such. The high wing design is a separate aircraft but again uses current stuff such as the wing and engines of the Javalina.

The Aguila V is advanced but not more so than the Australian P-51s, German He-100Ds, Atlantean F-17s, British Spits, or any of a number of different Italian fighters. Do note that the aircraft infrastructure in Mexico has been built up for some time, and only the fighter design is advanced.

I'm not talking about the Aguila V, though that design has had its own critisisms.

I'm more concerned that your designing rocket aircraft, based on German designs without the German players permission, before they've even historically been designed and then use the artistic licence argument (using actual photo's) to justify your defiance of both mod dis-approval AND the current German players dis-approval.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
The Aguila V performance was based on the P-51B and the Spitfire IX. I do have to correct the range because it should be slightly more than the Spit but much less than the P-51B. Laminar flow wings are just a different airfoil shape, and you know that they really don't work as advertised.But they are in style at this point in time so Mexico has to have them. The engine is US designed and built, and the supercharger either US or Atlantean. The program was based on the Aguila III and GW-105M+ so it didn't come out of the blue. The engine and some of the technology appeared in the 1939 Talons Aguila III+.

I think you're still being pretty optimistic. I'd also like to ask why the US is developing an engine using advanced technology it didn't really have and then it only being used for a handful of Mexican fighters? This is also whilst many more resources than historically are also being spent on the I-1430, and carrying on with the V-1710, R-2800 etc.

Thats the main issue I think. Mexico is putting designs together without all the pieces being put together like others as stated. That means Mexico has to be doing it themselves with a much smaller aircraft industry than the larger, more established world powers.

Updated the pics.

What eventually will come out like 5 years down the road...



As far as the pulsejet issue. Mexico has invested in some sort of jet engine research. Since people do not like pulsejets, I am open to changing it to a crappier, less powerful (that the German equivalent) turbojet (probably based off of a turbocharger) and go with that. Since turbojets first flew in 1939, I see no problem flying a turbojet powered aircraft in 1940.

I'd say more like 10.....
Still confused as to why Mexico needs a high speed interceptor with an unconventional powerplant when it has the Aquila and few Heavy bombers to worry about....

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Updated the pics.

What eventually will come out like 5 years down the road...



As far as the pulsejet issue. Mexico has invested in some sort of jet engine research. Since people do not like pulsejets, I am open to changing it to a crappier, less powerful (that the German equivalent) turbojet (probably based off of a turbocharger) and go with that. Since turbojets first flew in 1939, I see no problem flying a turbojet powered aircraft in 1940.

No.

No...

No what?

"No, I don't see a problem with it either"
or
"No, I don't agree with you."
or
"No, <fill in something else here on this spot that would make the "no" a bit clearer>"

I'm sorry to say that everything I have been reading in this current discussion makes sense, except for that last single word reply which, without any further explanation by you, I (and others) can interpret in a number of ways.

Think he meant: "No, absolutely no."

Indeed.

Quoted

No.

Quite possibly the most useful piece of criticism ever... really...

Quoted

Still confused as to why Mexico needs a high speed interceptor with an unconventional powerplant when it has the Aquila and few Heavy bombers to worry about....

Prestige... The Italians have motorjets, Mexico will be d@amned if they don't have an equivalent. Plus they will kill the competition at Talons over Cordoba...