WesWorld

I recently found a book that is about Atlantis, and inside it shows a map of most of its perceived territory's. Its name for Morroco was Autochthon and the name of the Canary Islands was Diaprepes. Ironicaly enough Bernhard and I wrote a breif history about the relations between Atlantis and Iberia. As it turns out the Atlantians were in Portugal (Elasippos),Gibralter (Gadeiros and the pilars of Heracles) and the Azores (Ampheres) durring the early bronze age. Atlantians also refered to England and Ireland as Mestor and Evaemon, Cancun mexico was known as Azaes and Venezuela was known as Musaeus.

This book also says that the myths that Thera and Crete are possible origins of the Atlantian myth are false as for the most part these Islands were inhabited by peacefull merchant trading folk while the Atlantians (at least to the greeks and Plato) were seen as benevilent conquorers. Portugal offered Atlantis great trading opertunity's and its likely thera and crete were also benificiary's. Western Italy (before the romans) was also stalked by the Atlantians and it seems only the Greeks were able to stave off Atlantian agression but only just as the nation disapeared. Atlantis before its distruction influenced possibly every nation in the Mediteranian and in much of the Atlantic, there seems to even be reference to the Trojans having encountering the Atlantians.
Geolodgical eveidence supports the theory that Atlantis was just about where I put it in the SIM map and that Islands in that area of the Atlantic are very unstable and can disapear practically over night. Its speculated that Atlantis for a while was about the size of portugal originally being much larger but being on top of an ocean ridge lost much of its original land mass, much of which supposedly was several land bridges that reached Portugal, Spain and North Africa.

Oddly enough those cute little suicidal lemmings (we all know and love to make fun of) swim out to this suposed location only to drown after a LONG swim from Norway, I'm assuming they stop along the way but thats a hell of a long way to swim!, but it seems to be fact. In addition to lemmings some birds and butterflys also migrate to this spot to perish, seemingly migrating to a long lost land. So far the book makes reference to stone henge being Atlantian built and that several other prominant civilizations such as the Egyptions mimicked Atlantian arcitechture. Stones on the Canary Islands bear an unledgable language that bears the marks of Atlantian symbolizim as discribed by Plato.

After the distruction of Atlantis the dark age began. In its aftermath GreeK and Roman empires flourished in the Med. Atlantis appears to have been destroyed in a more spectacular way than even Kracatoa in the pacific which was estimated to equal 200x20 megaton bombs!
Seeing as Atlantis in the wesworld never succumbed to Kracatoa's fate one can only assume that the distruction of Thera in the Aegean sea would have to be almost as spectacular as Kracatoa's to start the dark ages and lead to the downfall of Atlantian dominance in the Med durring the bronze age.

Not having read the book or much else on Atlantis, I'll bite my tongue and refrain from attacking the theories you've posted. They're interesting, but I don't buy them. I'm highly skeptical of the whole Atlantis myth - though I give two thumbs-up to the Wesworld version, since it is, after all, an alternate reality.

One thing that may be of use in building your own history: you've located Atlantis on the Mid-Atlantic Oceanic Ridge, meaning that it would have formed in the same fashion as Iceland. That is, flow after flow of basaltic lava. This stuff is pretty fluid, and thus doesn't lead to the big explosions like Mt. St. Helens, Thera, and Krakatoa. If it did, we'd be missing Iceland.

In Iceland, there was a problem in the seventies (I believe) when a fissure opened up and sent a flow toward the mouth of an important harbour. Had the flow blocked the harbour, the town would have lost its livelyhood, with associated economic hardship. As it was, the locals used construction equipment and water hoses to fight the flow, and managed to prevent a complete blockage.

If a similar situation happened to Wesworld Atlantis' main port, the consequences would've been dire. There'd be no stopping it. Trade would be disrupted, particularly if the merchant fleet were caught inside. That would probably lead to social strife and maybe worse (especially if the city also got overrun, regardless of loss of life). With the center unable to back-up the trading outposts and enclaves out in the Med, other enterprising cultures would undoubtedly take the opportunity to push them aside.

Just an observation; sorry if I'm being preachy!

J

Acctually I have given thought to this, as the region of the Atlantic that Atlantis is located in is very volcanic. Islands have been creted in very short time frames alongside other Islands curmbling into the seas.
In this book it also states that fresh water diatoms have been found two miles below the surface in an underwater region known as the Sierra Leone ridge. Given the fact that one volcanic Island "in the Canary Islands if I recall correctly) is predicted to colapse in a spectacular fasion that would cause a huge Tsunami that would hit the east coast with devastating results, I tend to favour the Atlatis in the Atlantic theory. The book is called "the distruction of Atlantis" by Frank Joseph if you are interested.

I'll have to start putting more volcanic activity in the Atlantian news releases for sure.

If I ever have time to visit a library again, I'll keep an eye open for the book.

You may find it, its recently been reprinted with a bit more info crammed into it. In the begining the auther takes you into a fictional setting in the land of Atlantis and then startes delving into the facts.
IIRC Rocky you have some geological knowledge? If so you may be able to lend some info as to wether or not the book seems to be accurate.

Does this mean that Atlantis has a large more or less flat plain in the centre like Iceland? I seem to think that J has more than a little geolocigcal knowledge

A question;
what are people from Atlantis called? Atlantians or Atlanteans?
People from South Africa? Afrikaaners?
People from Nordmark? Nordmarkers? Nordmarkians?

I always liked Nordmarker, myself. Although with people from Denmark being Danes, maybe people from Nordmark should be Nords...

I'm a geologist by training, though not a Ph.D as my nomer might suggest. So I can lend my opinion on related matters if asked. Sometimes even if I'm not asked (as folks working on Thaizia can attest).

J

Actually I think the correct term for people from Atlantis are Atlanteans and not Atlantians like I've been using.

Heres some interesting "facts about the Atlantis myth:

The exact location of Atlantis is not known as the continent split into many sections that moved in different directions.

Many researchers believe that Atlantis is near the Azores Islands. The Azores are a group of islands belonging to Portugal located about 900 miles (1500 km) west of the Portuguese coast. Some people believe the islands are the mountaintops of the sunken continent of Atlantis.

Other researchers believe that Atlantis is an exaggeration of the historical destruction of Thera and the Minoan empire and can now be found in the Aegean.

The island of Thera, also known as Santorini, is a volcanic island located due north of Crete in the Aegean Sea. Sometime around 1500 BC it was devastated by a volcanic explosion that may have contributed to the sudden downfall of the Minoan civilization.

Ancient writings from the Aztecs and Mayans like the Chilam Balam, Dresden Codex, Popuhl Vuh, Codex Cortesianus, and Troano Manuscript were also translated into histories of the destruction of Atlantis and Lemuria.

The Oera Linda Book from Holland is said to be one of the oldest books ever found. It tells of the destruction of the large Atlantic island by earthquakes and tidal waves.

The ancient Greek historian Diodorus wrote that thousands of years earlier Phoenicians had been to the immense Atlantic island (where Plato wrote Atlantis was.

Phoenician hieroglyphics have been found on numerous ruins in the South American jungles that are so ancient that the Indian tribes nearby lost memory of who built these ruins.

Diodorus wrote that the Atlanteans had WAR with the Amazonians!

The Greek Kantor reported visiting Egypt where they saw a marble column carved with hieroglyphics about Atlantis.

Greek historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote about the destruction of Atlantis.

Plutarch wrote about the lost continent in his book Lives.

Herodotus, regarded by some as the greatest historians of the ancients, wrote about the mysterious island civilization in the Atlantic and a city located in the region where Dr. Asher's expedition had found just that!

The Greek historian Timagenus wrote of the war between Atlantis and Europe and said tribes in ancient France said that was their original home.

Bright paintings in caves in France clearly show people wearing 20th century clothing: one painting led to an underground pyramid complex. French historian and archaeologist Robert Charroux dated them at 15,000 B.C.

Claudius Aelianus referred to Atlantis in his 3rd century work The Nature of Animals.

Theopompos - a Greek historian - wrote of the huge size of Atlantis and its cities of Machimum and Eusebius and a golden age free from disease and manual labor.

James Churchward wrote several volumes of books documenting ancient writings he claims to have translated in Southeast Asia concerning Atlantis and Mu, while geologist William Niven claimed to have excavated identical tablets in Mexico.

Dr. George Hunt Williamson, who authored several books on his Atlantean-Lemurian research in the 1950's, was an anthropologist explorer once listed in Who's Who in America. Williamson wrote how descendants of the Incas led him to an ancient manuscript in a temple in the Andes Mountains that told of the destruction of Atlantis and Mu, which had an advanced technology, by earthquakes and tidal waves. Williamson also visited dozens of Indian tribes in the United States and Mexico that told him of Atlantis and Mu, including the Hopi Indians.

The tablet from Lhasa, Tibet and also from Easter Island make It is clear from ancient writings that belief in Atlantis was common and accepted in Greece, Egypt, and Mayax {Mayan and Aztec Empires) by historians.

The Basques of Spain, the Guals of France, the tribes of the Canary and Azores islands, a tribe in Holland, and dozens of Indian tribes all speak of their origins in a large lost and sunken Atlantic land in which they all believe.

Interesting read. One gets the impression Atlantis has been all over the world - colonies maybe?

Honestly, I don´t think all is is true. Most likely things are mixed here as it is well known that coastal regions often changed during several thousand years and sunken cities close (<20nm) to the shore can be found on many places all over the world.

Further more one has to consider that historical facts will not survive more than three generations in a socienty where such things are not written down. Most of the old indian tribes haven´t used or developed a scripture so all what is "learned" from them regarding history has to be taken with a grain of salt. However, if historical facts are passed from generation to generation in the form of a peom or ryhme information can survive much longer as the rythm of the rhyme used makes it more difficult for anybody (i.e. storyteller) to change the content.

What makes it so difficult to derive some hard facts (if there are any) from the Altantis myth is that it is so often mixed with other BS like the Bermuda Triangle, UFOs or the Philadelphia Experiment. Just read Charles Berlitz´ books. As an author he has sold millions of books and is highly regarded by some as a "historian" (which he is not - from an academic point of view). Personally I think he´s a charlatan but his books are funny, easy to read and the best thing to have at hand when lying at a beach during holidays.

For example he writes that there is evidence of several advanced civilisations in the past. He believes to have found evidence that there is an Up and Down of human civilisations over a period of about 15000years. Given that the human being as we know it today is around on this planet for several hundred thousand years now and given that it took only about 5000 years to take us from hunters living in caves to men flying to the moon there is enough "space in time" to allow several advanced civilisations to form and to be destroyed. He says there is evidence of early nuclear blasts on earth because he has found places where the earth/sand is mold into glass much like where the USA tested nukes in New Mexico etc.

He couples stories like this with the Altantis myth claiming that the key to the secret is to understand that Atlantis may have been one of those ancient but advanced civilisations that were destroyed. All the stories found all over the world that seem to indicate there once was a advanced race are simply traces in the tribes social memory that have survived somehow. He also mixed Maya sculptures that look like planes into it etc. You know - if those old guys have been so advanced they surely had planes easily explaining why they were on every place on earth. Maybe the Atlanteans also had contact to civilisations somewhere in space explaining the UFOs etc. etc. etc....

See, what I want to say is that we´ll never know and as long as there are authors that write books about all this just to earn their dollars from the myth you can hardly derive the hard facts out of it.

The most reasonable story I´ve heard so far is about the destruction of a minoen city on Thera when that island blew up and that this incident inspired others to use that incident for their stories, parables and poems. Similar things could have happened anywhere else on Earth (like Krakatau etc.) explaining why there are similar stories all over this little blue planet.

But hey, maybe one day, archeaologists will find some kind of ancient Jumbo-Jet burried under sand in a desert and we really have to re-write history. Until then...

In the end all this is very interesting and amusing to read - much like all the stuff about pirate treasury. ;o) However, I remain sceptical...

Yours,

HoOmAn

Since we now have indications of very early contact with the new world - cocain and nicotin in mummies for instance - I am of the firm opinion that that "land in the atlantic" actually is America. I also have heard rumours of Roman Gelleys in a bay in Brazil (sorry, no source).

Well Often Myth has roots in true history. For example in Arizona there is a crater known as the Barringer crater, that to native Hopi and Zuni tribes was created when God threw a flaming demon out of heaven, hence its name Diablo canyon. In 1960 the canyons origin was established beyond a shadow of a doubt as a meteor impact crater.
While one can attribute some of the unknown shards of civilization found all accross the world to other civilizations, many seem to have links to one another which would suggest a common denominator. Why for example are there pyramids in egypt AND South America? Thats quite a far ways to travel just to create archatechture similar to another civilization, when one thinks of the limits of the roman civilization hundreds of years later.

"One thing that may be of use in building your own history: you've located Atlantis on the Mid-Atlantic Oceanic Ridge, meaning that it would have formed in the same fashion as Iceland. That is, flow after flow of basaltic lava. This stuff is pretty fluid, and thus doesn't lead to the big explosions like Mt. St. Helens, Thera, and Krakatoa. If it did, we'd be missing Iceland."

From what this novice understands about Volcano's one wouldn't need a Thera like explosion to destroy an island or a civilization for that matter. The Minoans (themselves a possible candidate for the origins of Atlantis) were conquered by the Greeks presumedly after Thera exploded creating tzunami's that destroyed much of their city's, what was left was mopped up by the opertunistic Greeks. If a volcano erupts in a similar way to the Mount St. Helens lateral eruption, with its fracture underwater, the water rushing into the volcano's lava dome would cause emense pressure from super heated steam to build and explode causing an even greater mountain colapse then experienced by Mount St. Helens.

Plato dosn't mention anything about a volcano, he only states that Atlantis was "overwhelmed by earthquakes, but in Kritias it discribes "great amounts of pumice outside the pillars of Heracles". As late as the telfth century Arab geographer Edrisi told of a Moorish ship that encountered an impassible stretch of shallow ocean outside the straightes of Gibralter that forced them to alter course for the canary islands. Krakatoa also had a similar penominon occur when it errupted. Swedish Nobel prize winner Svante Arrhenius discribed it as "large stones containing innumerable bubbles, pumice stones, that floated on the sea untill ground down to sand by the waves"

If one takes the Plato myth, which he insists is real, and is repeated by Egyptians, the fact that many many book burning incedents in history have taken place to erase untold amounts of knowledge, the distruction of many civilizations at least partially to natural disasters, (kracatoa caused the deaths of millions after the resulting Tzunami's) its easy to consider the existance of an island civilization in an area of the Atlantic known to have Islands disappear rapidly.

Here is an interesting veiw of the ocean floor......

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/2minrelief.html

Currently in the book about Atlantis I am reading, it discusses a possible meteor impact that seems to be told by many civilizations from Apache indians to India itself.

Ironically enough if you look off of the Yucatan peninsula it seems to show a nice deep channel where ironically enough scientists think a meteor that killed the dinosaurs impacted the earth. It appears that you can acctually see a channel in that area of the ocean floor.
If you look off the coast of Turkey their seems to be a deep hole in the ocean floor off of Rodhos.

Its a very interesting veiw of the ocean floor.
In addition the book I am reading hit on a subject brought up by Bernhard in this thread.

"Since we now have indications of very early contact with the new world - cocain and nicotin in mummies for instance - I am of the firm opinion that that "land in the atlantic" actually is America. I also have heard rumours of Roman Galleys in a bay in Brazil (sorry, no source)."

The Apache Indians commonly refere to an ancestrial homeland known as "the Isle of flame", far accross the sunrise sea adorned with great buildings canals a fruitfull plain, palaces and temples, a high sacred mountain and harbours for big canoes. The myth then explains how a fire dragon arose and their ancestors had to flee to the mountains far to the south.

The Apaches, amoung other Indian tribes discribe a god who fell to earth after a demon pushed him into his camp fire in the heavens, with his hair on fire. As he ran arround the earth on fire some of his hairs fell to earth, took root and sprouted as tobaco.

Some Egyptian tales also tell of an "Isle of Flame", and one of the common myths in various civilizations is of a great deluge first of fire and then of water.

If it's the dark channel crossing west to east, south of Cuba, it's the Cayman Trench, the boundary of the Caribbean tectonic plate with the North American plate. The trench is a transform fault, which has produced quite a bit of seismic activity in the area as well.

The Chicxulub crater's on the north end of Yucutan, WSW of Cuba. At that scale, I'm not sure if it's visible in the map.

A meteor large enough to be seen on both sides of the globe would not have been a good thing for anybody in the region...

There is a large crater in the Gulf of Mexico. There is also a much larger one in the North Sea about 3 miles off the coast of Yorkshire.

"A meteor large enough to be seen on both sides of the globe would not have been a good thing for anybody in the region..."

Agreed...I think the movie "Deep Impact" just about sums it up. From what I have read on meteor impacts the scene in "Deep Impact" is very accurate.
I can just emagine what people would see just before the impact, if anyone has seen footage of the Meteorite that streaked accross canada (in the early 80's IIRC) its a very ominous sight indeed.

Rocky do you have any idea what that deep pock mark off turkey is caused by?

Not offhand I don't, but I'll poke around and see if I can turn anything up.