WesWorld

Several new designs laying down this year, as President Long promised while trying to calm the uproar about the cruiser sales. Two heavy cruisers, four light cruisers, and a dozen new destroyers will be laid down in 1940.

Los Angeles and Wichita will complete in 1942. Others will follow, probably in 1941 & 42.

Los Angeles, United States Heavy Cruiser laid down 1940

Displacement:
22,759 t light; 23,702 t standard; 25,712 t normal; 27,321 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
766.15 ft / 757.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
233.52 m / 230.73 m x 25.91 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
12 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x3 guns), 335.00lbs / 151.95kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
40 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (10x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
52 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (26x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 18 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,932 lbs / 2,237 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 492.05 ft / 149.98 m 11.06 ft / 3.37 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 173,559 shp / 129,475 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,619 tons

Complement:
1,014 - 1,319

Cost:
£11.262 million / $45.047 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 513 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 7,403 tons, 28.8 %
- Belts: 1,832 tons, 7.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,226 tons, 4.8 %
- Armour Deck: 4,194 tons, 16.3 %
- Conning Tower: 150 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,641 tons, 18.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,903 tons, 38.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,953 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,009 lbs / 18,148 Kg = 156.3 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.518
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.36 ft / 1.33 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 39.00 ft / 11.89 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Stern: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Average freeboard: 25.85 ft / 7.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 181.9 %
Waterplane Area: 45,344 Square feet or 4,213 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 710 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.40
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Quoted

Originally posted by CanisD
Several new designs laying down this year, as President Long promised while trying to calm the uproar about the cruiser sales. Two heavy cruisers, four light cruisers, and a dozen new destroyers will be laid down in 1940.

Sounds as if Carl Vinson and Park Trammell are still in the Senate.

The Olympia Class is basically a Brooklyn with twin 6" DP mounts in place of the triple 6" SP mounts. The 6" DP was a less than successful design in RL, and its future in Wesworld is still to be determined.

USS Olympia, United States Light Cruiser laid down 1940

Displacement:
9,927 t light; 10,461 t standard; 11,691 t normal; 12,675 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
623.26 ft / 615.00 ft x 62.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
189.97 m / 187.45 m x 18.90 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 130.00lbs / 58.97kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
28 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (8 mounts), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,722 lbs / 781 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 288

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 393.60 ft / 119.97 m 9.45 ft / 2.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.25" / 57 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 85,257 shp / 63,602 Kw = 32.50 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,214 tons

Complement:
561 - 730

Cost:
£5.029 million / $20.115 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 204 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 2,383 tons, 20.4 %
- Belts: 777 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 440 tons, 3.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,111 tons, 9.5 %
- Conning Tower: 55 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,280 tons, 19.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,460 tons, 38.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,763 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 5.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,887 lbs / 7,660 Kg = 156.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.511
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forecastle (17 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (19 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 20.48 ft / 6.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 181.3 %
Waterplane Area: 26,693 Square feet or 2,480 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 523 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.32
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

The Bainbridge is the Fletcher class in all but name.
(updated to fix CS Strength)
Bainbridge, United States Destroyer laid down 1940

Displacement:
2,055 t light; 2,152 t standard; 2,434 t normal; 2,660 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
377.47 ft / 369.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 14.80 ft (normal load)
115.05 m / 112.47 m x 12.19 m x 4.51 m

Armament:
5 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (5x2 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
7 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 283 lbs / 128 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 49,969 shp / 37,277 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 508 tons

Complement:
173 - 225

Cost:
£1.629 million / $6.515 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 40 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 30 tons, 1.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 30 tons, 1.2 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,186 tons, 48.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 749 tons, 30.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 379 tons, 15.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
778 lbs / 353 Kg = 12.5 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.390
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.50 ft / 0.46 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 17.61 ft / 5.37 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.4 %
Waterplane Area: 9,378 Square feet or 871 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 79 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 40 lbs/sq ft or 197 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.46
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Shouldn't the Olympia's main battery be simmed as Automatics, if they're based on the OTL DP guns? This is how I've been simming the current generation 5.5" DP Autos, with another 10 tons per turret in miscellaneous gear and equipment.

I added several hundred tons to the Misc weight to represent the added weight of the DP mount. Simming them as automatics only adds about 40 tons or so to the weight, which is way too low. Each twin DP turret was 20% heavier than the triple 6" on the Brooklyn. Apparently there were plans to eventually replace the twin mount with a triple automatic based in the Des Moines 8" mount.

Wow, Los Angeles is huge! Seems like a decent stand in for the historical Alaska class, or even a precurser perhaps?

Los Angeles is rather big for the armament. Quite a bit bigger even than the historical CA-C designs. They were aroudn the 18000ton mark from memory. It's very fast and very well armoured, but I'm really wondering why. It'll do fine against the various Asian heavy cruisers - but there's a fairly similar number of battlecruisers with 12"+ guns that'll be able to do far harm. I think I'd reduce the speed to around 33kts or so and slim down the design considerably. At 33kts with that size of ship you're still going to be one of the fastest things around.

Olymia seems pretty useful, but the 5" battery is rather redundant if the 6" are DP. Admittedly, the 6" auto didn't really work so the 5" is the main battery, but the designers wouldn't know that at the time. I'd maybe want some more beam to deal with topweight problems. Then again, the Brooklyns haven't been in service long so the problems likely won't be apparent yet.

Quoted

The Olympia Class is basically a Brooklyn

No, it's an Oregon City, as identified by its single funnel and low-set bridge with gun director on top.

5" deck on a heavy cruiser? I think she is waaaay to big for her armament. Reminds me of S&G.

Quoted

Originally posted by klagldsf

Quoted

The Olympia Class is basically a Brooklyn

No, it's an Oregon City, as identified by its single funnel and low-set bridge with gun director on top.

More accurately, a Fargo, I'd think. And Klags is referring to WW Brooklyn, which is essentially a Cleveland.

The heavy deck armor is geared towards long range combat, and the fact that she might run into foes with bigger guns than her. The super heavy 8" rounds give her the most powerful 8" guns of any heavy cruiser and will give even the super cruisers like Kongo a bit of concern before she runs away. 35 kts has become my standard speed for my cruisers, destroyers, and the new carriers I'm planning. There's also the possibility that they could be upgraded to twin 10" turrets in the future if I develop such a gun.

The CL is the Fargo variant of the Cleveland, which is the Brooklyn in Wesworld. The Oregon City is based on the Batlimore CA, and I'll be using that design for my next CA class which will replace the old Tinclads.

Impressive designs, for sure.

Like some other posters I also do not understand the reason why the Los Angeles class needs to be so big. Okay, she has 12 rifles and yes, her armor suit is very good for a heavy cruiser. But what targets is she designed to fight? Given her huge size I would guess: super-cruisers.

Now, the problem that I see is this: Los Angeles is not designed to fight such ships effectively. She lacks punch and is too big - and for her size she is not really protected that good.

For me the easiest way is to compare the Los Angeles to the RSAN Radiance class for example. On 18000ts the SAE got a super-cruiser with 8x11" guns firing 320kg shells and and armor suit of ~230/250mm vertical and 80mm horizontal. To calculate her immune zone, I checked her against the South African 210mm gun firing a 155kg shell (Los Angeles: 203mm and 151kg) because those stats I had at hand. It turns out, the Radiance is immune to the 210mm gun outside 12000m (hull, 10000m for turret faces) and inside 25000m. On the other hand, the Los Angeles´imune zone is between 22000m and 30000m. To me this sounds as if the Radiance has a remarkable advantage here, although 5000 tons smaller, because hitting something beyond 25000 meters with a normal naval gun will remain a problem and so naval battles will be fought inside this range - especially among cruisers.

I also compared Los Angeles to the RSAN Vengeance class. That ships is about 8000 tons smaller, features 9x250mm guns (238kg shells) and armor plates pretty similar to the LA, except for her deck, which is significantly thinner (70mm). Between 15000m and 22000m (~24000yards) she should be save against the American guns while in return her own guns will not penetrate between 19000m and 30000m.
This is more difficult to judge but knowing the longest hits in OTL world war 2 were achieved at about 26000yards, the Vengeance immune zone probably is more effective, because she can operate between 15km and 19km where she can savage her oponent without risking penetration of her vitals. (That said, this is on paper only.)

It should be noted, the Radiance has a speed of 33kn, the Vengeance can run at 32kn versus LA´s 35kn. The speed advantage is at the edge of what is usualy rated as necessary to make a difference (~3kn).

I am aware, there is more than just main guns and their caliber. The Los Angeles´ AA suite is much better than what the South Africans field. She also has more rifles, more planes, more misc weight, probably a higher ROF and other feature that will make her superior to the RSAN designs. But to fight enemy cruisers, she needs her main guns first place. The ship that hits first and hard will win the day and the LA offers the bigger target.

Just my 2 cents...

PS: Just checked the Kongos. Size, speed and vertical armor are quite comparable to the Radiance class. Kongos deck is thicker. providing better protection but her armament is "only" comparable to the Vengeance class (caliber/shell size, numbrt of guns). Still, although older and 5000ts smaller, I´d give the Kongos an edge against LA.

Armor is virtually identical to the historical Baltimore design. Saves almost 4500 tons.
Los Angeles, United States Heavy Cruiser laid down 1940

Displacement:
18,251 t light; 19,096 t standard; 20,860 t normal; 22,272 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
728.90 ft / 720.00 ft x 84.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
222.17 m / 219.46 m x 25.60 m x 7.32 m

Armament:
12 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x3 guns), 335.00lbs / 151.95kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
40 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (10x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
52 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (26x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 18 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,932 lbs / 2,237 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 438.48 ft / 133.65 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.30" / 160 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 154,661 shp / 115,377 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,175 tons

Complement:
867 - 1,128

Cost:
£9.891 million / $39.562 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 513 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 4,555 tons, 21.8 %
- Belts: 1,236 tons, 5.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 987 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,332 tons, 11.2 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 4,135 tons, 19.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,748 tons, 41.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,610 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,289 lbs / 13,285 Kg = 114.4 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.503
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.99 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.36 ft / 1.33 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 37.00 ft / 11.28 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Stern: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Average freeboard: 24.08 ft / 7.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179.1 %
Waterplane Area: 42,023 Square feet or 3,904 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 701 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.36
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Smaller yes, but also much weaker. I´d say this proposal is worse than the original one.

Btw, why is the 40mm stern mount off the center line?

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Smaller yes, but also much weaker. I´d say this proposal is worse than the original one.

It's the speed. Springsharp murders you when you get past 32 knots or so.

Best comparison might be with the RCN Frigates.

Indeed, Serapis shows what the LA could look like with different main guns.

Btw, the drawing of Serapis is one of the most beautiful I´ve ever seen.

I don't think the thick deck is that bad. The USN cruisers were historically going that way, and away from vertical armour (what little vertical armour they actually had wasn't that useful anyway). The big thick armour deck gave good protection at long range, but more pertinent was the protection it gave against dive bombers.

I think I'd argue about the 8"/55 with the superheavy shell being the most powerful 8" gun. The RN's 8"/50 with the SAP shell was much more powerful against cruiser style targets. The need for dedicated armour piercing weapons isn't there so much with cruisers - their armour isn't that thick, and doesn't cover that much of the hull. You can maul cruisers fine with 6" shellfire. Of course, there's quite a few large cruisers floating around with 10" and 12" guns at the moment...

Speed is the main killer. What is the tactical thinking behind 35kts fleet speed? Your destroyers aren't going to be going that fast in a seaway anyway, IIRC the Sumners were usually only good for 31-32kts in non-calm conditions.

32.5 kts, matching the Brooklyns, increased armor.

Los Angeles, United States Heavy Cruiser laid down 1940

Displacement:
18,251 t light; 19,096 t standard; 20,860 t normal; 22,272 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
728.78 ft / 720.00 ft x 84.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
222.13 m / 219.46 m x 25.60 m x 7.32 m

Armament:
12 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x3 guns), 335.00lbs / 151.95kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
40 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (10x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
52 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (26x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 18 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,932 lbs / 2,237 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 438.48 ft / 133.65 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 3.00" / 76 mm 6.30" / 160 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 115,934 shp / 86,486 Kw = 32.50 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,175 tons

Complement:
867 - 1,128

Cost:
£9.021 million / $36.083 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 513 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 5,716 tons, 27.4 %
- Belts: 1,648 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 959 tons, 4.6 %
- Armour Deck: 3,110 tons, 14.9 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 3,100 tons, 14.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,522 tons, 40.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,610 tons, 12.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34,736 lbs / 15,756 Kg = 135.7 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 16.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.503
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.99 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.36 ft / 1.33 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 23.08 ft / 7.03 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.1 %
Waterplane Area: 42,023 Square feet or 3,904 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 690 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform