WesWorld

Placeholder for information relating to new German ship designs expected to be laid down in 1940.

Displacement: 985 t light; 1,022 t standard; 1,820 t normal; 2,458 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
257.37 ft / 232.94 ft x 39.07 ft x 17.49 ft (normal load) [78.45 m / 71.00 m x 11.91 m x 5.33 m]

Armament:

4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model Machine guns in deck mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 2,000

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 1 shaft, 510 shp / 381 Kw = 10.00 kts
Range 50,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,436 tons

Complement: 139 - 181

Cost: £0.219 million / $0.875 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 14 tons, 0.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 621 tons, 34.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 835 tons, 45.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 19.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 7,862 lbs / 3,566 Kg = 32,208.1 x 0.8 " / 20 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness: As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %; Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.26 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 24 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m before break)
- Stern: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 16.53 ft / 5.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space
- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 25.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.8 %

Waterplane Area: 5,299 Square feet or 492 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 481 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 54 lbs/sq ft or 265 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 7.90
- Overall: 1.17

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

My thanks to Brockpaine for his permission to use his sim of the Gorch Fock

Zerstorer Typ 1940 Fleet Destroyer

Displacement: 1,904 t light; 2,018 t standard; 2,246 t normal; 2,428 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

404.11 ft / 393.70 ft x 37.86 ft x 12.86 ft (normal load) [123.17 m / 120.00 m x 11.54 m x 3.92 m]

Armament:

6 - 5.04" / 128 mm guns (3x2 guns), 63.99lbs / 29.02kg shells, 1940 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 399 lbs / 181 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 41,226 shp / 30,755 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 410 tons

Complement: 163 - 212

Cost: £1.491 million / $5.965 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 50 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 27 tons, 1.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 21 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,000 tons, 44.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 778 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 341 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 834 lbs / 378 Kg = 13.0 x 5.0 " / 128 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.410
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.40 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.75 ft / 7.85 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Mid (45 %): 20.51 ft / 6.25 m (12.01 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.01 ft / 3.66 m
- Stern: 12.01 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 16.25 ft / 4.95 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 165.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.8 %
Waterplane Area: 9,581 Square feet or 890 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 84 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 43 lbs/sq ft or 209 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.55
- Longitudinal: 1.94
- Overall: 0.62
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Miscellaneous Weight - 50 tons - reserved for design growth, Depth Charges, ASDIC etc.

I don´t want to pick on you - but you´re using the wrong version of springstyle, methinks.

Why put 20mm guns on a sailing ship made for training? You will hardly have good arcs for AA fire nor will 20mm guns be a good choice for gunnery practice.....

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
I don´t want to pick on you - but you´re using the wrong version of springstyle, methinks.

Why put 20mm guns on a sailing ship made for training? You will hardly have good arcs for AA fire nor will 20mm guns be a good choice for gunnery practice.....

I know that I am using Springsharp v 2.1a for my own work; now, the sim for the sail training ship was kindly provided by Brock, as noted. I don't know which version of Springsharp he may have used for the design.

It looks like the right version of Springsharp to me.

The STS has 20mm guns because the original Gorch Fock had 20mm guns at some points in her career. In any case, Germany has proper training cruisers custom-built for gunnery training and equipped with modern guns, so there's really no reason to try to stuff something larger on. The 20mm guns can, however, be replaced by a saluting gun or two.

I think the confusion is coming from the formatting; he may have made the Report window larger, which isn't shifting lengthy report stuff (such as the weapons) to new lines like we're all used to.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
I think the confusion is coming from the formatting; he may have made the Report window larger, which isn't shifting lengthy report stuff (such as the weapons) to new lines like we're all used to.

Yup. Everything is there as it should be - I double-checked.

Saar class U-Boat Tender

Displacement: 2,646 t light; 2,732 t standard; 3,623 t normal; 4,337 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

355.96 ft / 344.49 ft x 49.21 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load) [108.50 m / 105.00 m x 15.00 m x 4.00 m]

Armament:

2 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 75 lbs / 34 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
3rd: 0.20" / 5 mm - -

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 3,959 shp / 2,954 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts (see notes)
Bunker at max displacement = 1,605 tons

Complement: 233 - 303

Cost: £0.692 million / $2.767 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 9 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 3 tons, 0.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 106 tons, 2.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,127 tons, 31.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 977 tons, 27.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,400 tons, 38.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 8,659 lbs / 3,928 Kg = 245.2 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 8.20 ft / 2.50 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m before break)
- Stern: 9.02 ft / 2.75 m
- Average freeboard: 15.25 ft / 4.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.0 %
Waterplane Area: 12,056 Square feet or 1,120 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 214 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 309 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 1.03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Fuel stores for supported U-boats are simmed as additional bunkers. Actual ship's bunkers are 164 tons for stated range of 6,000 miles. 728 tons of fuel available for transfer.

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight:

460 tons for additional crew quarters and recreational spaces
200 tons for torpedo workshop
200 tons for engineering workshop
50 tons for cranes and handling gear
490 tons for spare torpedoes, ammunition etc.

Mehrzweckboot Typ 1940 General Purpose Escort

Displacement: 276 t light; 285 t standard; 314 t normal; 337 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

188.02 ft / 170.60 ft x 20.67 ft x 6.23 ft (normal load)
57.31 m / 52.00 m x 6.30 m x 1.90 m

Armament:

1 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount on centreline forward
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount on centreline amidships
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 25 lbs / 11 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
2 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5,691 shp / 4,245 Kw = 24.00 kts, Range 2,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 52 tons

Complement: 36 - 48

Cost: £0.191 million / $0.766 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 3 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 140 tons, 44.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 117 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 38 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 4.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 164 lbs / 74 Kg = 7.9 x 3.5 " / 88 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 11.15 ft / 3.40 m (10.83 ft / 3.30 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 10.50 ft / 3.20 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 10.51 ft / 3.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 157.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.3 %
Waterplane Area: 2,349 Square feet or 218 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 113 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.61
- Longitudinal: 5.40
- Overall: 0.76
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

15 tons of miscellaneous weight reserved for A/S outfit - ASDIC, two A/S mortars (K-guns), and two racks for twenty-four 100 kg depth charges

Quoted

Originally posted by exigeant
just a question, so far germany has used 533 mm and 600 mm torpedoes, why introduce 550 mm?

Traditionally, 550mm was the diameter of German torpedoes.

I fear she falls afoul the "Gentlemen's Design Rules" as her overall hull strength is below 1.00. As the rule is written her speed would have to be >24kts to qualify for a reduced strength rating.

Quoted

Originally posted by Sachmle
I fear she falls afoul the "Gentlemen's Design Rules" as her overall hull strength is below 1.00. As the rule is written her speed would have to be >24kts to qualify for a reduced strength rating.

That is a good point. However, given the size of the ship, I would ask one of our mods to take a look and offer an official opinion. If not, I fear back to the drawing boards.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan

Quoted

Originally posted by Sachmle
I fear she falls afoul the "Gentlemen's Design Rules" as her overall hull strength is below 1.00. As the rule is written her speed would have to be >24kts to qualify for a reduced strength rating.

That is a good point. However, given the size of the ship, I would ask one of our mods to take a look and offer an official opinion. If not, I fear back to the drawing boards.

Not really. Add .01 knots of speed and she's in the clear. (Refer to Walter's LRMPS ship)

I'm generally in favor of logic and reason prevailing over a gimicky negligible stat change, but since I'm not one of the fellows who put together the design rules, I'd rather leave it for someone like Hoo or Wes to rule on.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
I'm generally in favor of logic and reason prevailing over a gimicky negligible stat change, but since I'm not one of the fellows who put together the design rules, I'd rather leave it for someone like Hoo or Wes to rule on.

Indeed. I'd rather not try to fudge things by pushing the speed up by so small an amount. If the mods decide that she doesn't pass muster, I'll go back to the drawing boards.

It is all a question of literal "Greater than" vice "Equal to or Greater Than".

Well, as I've already discussed the issue with Bruce, I feel that 24 knots is the bare minimum listed in the gentlemans rules so why not use that speed? That said Hoo's opinion is most welcome.