WesWorld

Romania abstains, but is increasingly concerned about the Bharti foreign office, and the double standard it appears to have. When India goes and makes "provocative" moves, all is well and good but if a Western nation does something "provocative" it is immediately censured.

The leader of the Brazilian delegation Mr. Juan D'Alvanso stands up and looks around at his fellow delegates. "Gentlemen, I have to wonder at the proposed motion from the esteemed delegate from Bharat. We are currently discussing and voting on what appears to be a motion saying that Canada has been a bad boy, but doesn't need to stand in the corner, yet." General laughter from the Assembly. " I am curious though as to whether or not our friend from Bharat understands the precedence he is setting in putting forth this motion, and that it may come back to bite him later? Why let's say Mr. Singh bumps into me in the hall on the way out. By Mr. Singh's reasoning, I could very well say Bharat was trying to provoke Brazil into a fight, and have a vote of censure placed on Bharat at the next League Assembly." More laughter.

"If one nation provokes another whether intended or unintended it is not the League of Nations responsiblity to respond to the provoker. If that was so, half the nations in here would have a vote of censure upon them already, which brings me to my third point."

"The problem is, gentlemen we don't know all the facts and things have gone abit too hasty for my liking. Was China provoked? It seems so yes. Did Canada wish to provoke China? That is a question I for one cannot honestly answer. The facts that we know are this:

1) Canada is undergoing a training exercise in the Hong Kong region inside British territorial waters but 20km away from Chinese territorial waters

2) China apparently knew of the exercise but not how close it was to Chinese waters, and therefore got their feelings hurt.

And the problem is all of this could have been the result of a bureacratic typing error for all we know. So while I would like to vote yes to the proposal, and be able to put a vote of censure on the South African Empire the next time they add a single fighter, or a single ship or a single infantryman to their forces in Gran Uruguay and therefore "provoking" the Brazilian government, Brazil's vote is no. However, while the South African Empire may be saved from a vote of censure being called against them should they do something "provocative" the Empire of Bharat shall not be so fortunate in the future.

Bharat stands : "And I quote from our Charter:

THE HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES,
In order to promote international co-operation and to achieve international peace and security

China was on their right to ask for the League's help. So Brazil thinks this have no merit? Following the rules of of the League? So you are saying that the League's first sentence is not valid anymore? This time the provocation was either a criminal omission or a deliverate act in their intend to arouse China into an aggressive action. But I agree precedent indeed is been presented, that some nations are better than others in these Halls and the words in this Charter amount to just pretty words."

"Canada has unofficially stated that indeed it was intentional and boasted about their actions in the floor. But if Brazil and the rest wants to be like to be an oxen in a cart following the path set by their owners so be it. " Some delegations nod their heads in agreement

Bharati delegation leaves to do something important. Basically anything but before leaving withdrew their motion. Their intent to show that the League as uninterested to resolve the problems of certain nations and willing to be protective of the actions of others was presented in the open. Double Standard.

OOC: Really one cruiser and few DDs isn't a major excericse, it was only a gunnery excercise and if the RN has been using the Soko chain as targets since years ago (probably pre-Great War) then China knows what goes on there and what the sounds are.
Also if the guns were firing towards international waters its an even lesser problem.

India is peeved about its refusal to be allowed through Iraq to Saudi Arabia hence its support for China.

Had China not threatened war we wouldn't of had a problem but once again they act all peevish over a minor ommission like they do expecting the world to look the other way when they illeagally arm the Spratleys and make claims on Hainan.

At some point when I get time I'll make an offical IC statement.

The Atlantean delegate stands....

"Atlantis votes nay against the Bharati motion as it does not condemn China for its own equally provocative actions, which is the crux of this issue.

Further more we do not believe that Bharati intent is to promote international co-operation and to achieve international peace and security in the spirit of the League of nations, as they claim, otherwise they would take an unbiased possition and condemn China's provocative and outrageous demands placed upon other nations with reguards to actions within their own territory's.

Such actions set a dangerous precedent, one that Atlantis will not tolerate. Atlantis has a right to conduct naval actions within its own territory and is not obligated legally to inform anyone of its intentions. Such actions are a matter of courtesy, not legal obligation.

If China wishes to limit Commonwealth actions or movements they should negotiate with the commonwealth, not just one nation."
Many delegates nodded in agreement at this point, some even applauded....

"The Bharati delegate may quote from the Leagues charter all he wants in an attempt to use slight of hand to cloud the real issue but he is not fooling anyone here."

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
the RN has been using the Soko chain as targets since years ago (probably pre-Great War)

If this is true, then Chile will just vote a flat nay on censuring Canada, and will not note their "disapproval" of Canadian methods. If true, it would appear China (and apparently India) are attempting to conjure an incident versus the Commonwealth.

IC: Bahrati delegation left at the beginning of the Atlantean response so sadly they miss the end of the dog and pony show of the "Good Guys". At least the Bharati show was more entertaining, got everyone to bang their chests in defense of their own "righteous actions."

OC: Not mad or anything like it. Just playing a character. My personal opinion is close to Brock's. Both sides are not innocent; the Chinese of been aggressive in their responses and the Canadians in their big-stick diplomacy been a little ham-fisted. With the Canadian ham-fisted response been caused by Chinese actions.

The British IMO IC play it more safe and are the epithome of the "Good Guys" in WW. They are polite and suave to you while basically telling you "Do this because is for your own good" all of this while been backed up by a lot of ships.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
the RN has been using the Soko chain as targets since years ago (probably pre-Great War)

If this is true, then Chile will just vote a flat nay on censuring Canada, and will not note their "disapproval" of Canadian methods. If true, it would appear China (and apparently India) are attempting to conjure an incident versus the Commonwealth.

If this information is true indeed the point is moot. India was unaware of these facts and indeed can see the reasoning presented by the British Government in askign to dismiss the motion.

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Originally posted by perdedor99
Bahrati delegation left at the beginning of the Atlantean response so sadly they miss the end of the dog and pony show of the "Good Guys". At least the Bharati show was more entertaining, got everyone to bang their chests in defense of their own "righteous actions."

Which proves my point, India is merely stirring the pot and NOT using the League to foster peace.

Its also quite convienient to sling insults and then leave before you reap what you've sowed.

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Originally posted by perdedor99
OC: Not mad or anything like it. Just playing a character. My personal opinion is close to Brock's. Both sides are not innocent; the Chinese of been aggressive in their responses and the Canadians in their big-stick diplomacy been a little ham-fisted. With the Canadian ham-fisted response been caused by Chinese actions.

Heh, I've always seen the Canadians as a bit of the "Bad Cop" side versus Britain's "Good Cop". Just part of the different personalities of the individual Commonwealth members...

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Originally posted by Brockpaine

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Originally posted by perdedor99
OC: Not mad or anything like it. Just playing a character. My personal opinion is close to Brock's. Both sides are not innocent; the Chinese of been aggressive in their responses and the Canadians in their big-stick diplomacy been a little ham-fisted. With the Canadian ham-fisted response been caused by Chinese actions.

Heh, I've always seen the Canadians as a bit of the "Bad Cop" side versus Britain's "Good Cop". Just part of the different personalities of the individual Commonwealth states...

LOL. Pretty nice analogy.

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin

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Originally posted by perdedor99
Bahrati delegation left at the beginning of the Atlantean response so sadly they miss the end of the dog and pony show of the "Good Guys". At least the Bharati show was more entertaining, got everyone to bang their chests in defense of their own "righteous actions."

Which proves my point, India is merely stirring the pot and NOT using the League to foster peace.

Its also quite convienient to sling insults and then leave before you reap what you've sowed.

I should have add IC's to my entry you quote. My bad, and is all in character on my side.

"Dear ambassadors,

it looks like there are different opinions on this subject.

At first, I would again clarify several things, which are here apparently still used against China:

I. China sees Hainan Dao DEFINITELY as part of the Iberian Federation. Of course there were in the past in this respect different opinions and there are still trends in China,
which see Hainan Dao as part of the Chinese Empire, but this is NOT THE OFFICIAL stance of the government of his majesty.
His Majesty has already notified to Iberia in the past, that China's claims about Hainan Dao didn't exist anymore !

II. Spratleys. These was not in any way distributed territory in the past !!!!! It has always been exclusively philippine territory, which is of no other nation has been called into question.
Now, China has concluded an agreement with the philippines, the one and ONLY sole and rightful owner, on the sharing of the islands as Condominum and now there is the meaning,
that China has illegally enriched. THIS IS NOT TRUE !!! China has concluded with the "owner" of the islands a valid contract and therefore it sees all the other claims here as null and void.

Perhaps confusing the ambassadors the Spratleys again with the Paracel Islands. These are controversial and currently Iberian mandate. Here too, China has already publicly announced, that
FIRST AFTER the independence of Indochina, the event will extensively discussed with the countries in question. Until then, China accepted the Iberian mandate !!

Apparently, however, the LoN is dictated by some nations and they not hesitate to impose their interests. In our eyes, the LoN is not an assembly of assimilated Nations. That is very unfortunate
because China had hoped that the LoN is a neutral tool and not a puppet of the great powers. China has probably made a mistake here."


After this words Dong Seng Fen sit down and staring on a telegram from his embassy, brought to him by his secretary ....

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
Perhaps confusing the ambassadors the Spratleys again with the Paracel Islands. These are controversial and currently Iberian mandate. Here too, China has already publicly announced, that FIRST AFTER the independence of Indochina, the event will extensively discussed with the countries in question. Until then, China accepted the Iberian mandate !!

OOC: France is empowered to according to the Indochina Treaty to represent Indochina's interests in these matters.

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
Apparently, however, the LoN is dictated by some nations and they not hesitate to impose their interests. In our eyes, the LoN is not an assembly of assimilated Nations. That is very unfortunate because China had hoped that the LoN is a neutral tool and not a puppet of the great powers. China has probably made a mistake here."

IC: "As previously already noted, China is attempting to create an atmosphere of intimidation to threaten its neighbors' exercise of free navigation in international waters, and has manufactured an incident to threaten a Commonwealth member state with censure and sanctions. While the claims China has levied are not entirely baseless, it is impossible in the spirit of neutrality to criticize Canadian actions without first criticizing Chinese actions.

"The esteemed Chinese delegate makes grand accusations of the alleged lack of League neutrality, and asserts this body is a puppet of the Great Powers, but such accusations are only being voiced because China finds our neutrality is not in China's favor."

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

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Originally posted by Hood
the RN has been using the Soko chain as targets since years ago (probably pre-Great War)

If this is true, then Chile will just vote a flat nay on censuring Canada, and will not note their "disapproval" of Canadian methods. If true, it would appear China (and apparently India) are attempting to conjure an incident versus the Commonwealth.

You forgot one important word in front of that line: 'if'. Considering that 1939 is the first time they're mentioned and parador only knows about it after ShinRa posted that bit, I doubt that to be true, whatever Hood or ShinRa say about it OOC now. Whatever they say now about it, I only see it as an excuse to justify their actions and put all the blame on China.

Will work on an IC response...

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
the RN has been using the Soko chain as targets since years ago (probably pre-Great War)

If this is true, then Chile will just vote a flat nay on censuring Canada, and will not note their "disapproval" of Canadian methods. If true, it would appear China (and apparently India) are attempting to conjure an incident versus the Commonwealth.

You forgot one important word in front of that line: 'if'.

Please read what I said again: "If this is true". Since Hood did not decisively state it is used for RN gunnery practice, I was very careful to note "If this is true". (I anticipated being challenged on precisely that point, and I was therefore VERY careful to make my statement an If-Then, rather than a Because-Therefore.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-39dsknfVxk

Scruffy believes in this body, but he has been recalled by his government for consultations.

(as for the Soko Islands historically being used for gunnery practice, I honestly don't know, and either answer would not suprise me. I'd assume local ships stationed at Hong Kong would occasionally need to practice their gunnery somewhere, and I looked for the best candidate (ie, no population to annoy and accidently detonate) during a brief look into the matter.)

Sorry for not being clear. I meant that you should have included that in the quote. Sorry. -_-;;

I get the impression that my allies read that line differently because the way you quoted that bit.

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Originally posted by Rooijen10
Sorry for not being clear. I meant that you should have included that in the quote. Sorry. -_-;;

I get the impression that my allies read that line differently because the way you quoted that bit.

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, I suppose that likely should have been left in there, especially since I was already anticipating the challenge I thought you'd made.

Quoted

as for the Soko Islands historically being used for gunnery practice, I honestly don't know, and either answer would not suprise me.

This is Wesworld, so whatever the islands were used for in OTL, it could be different here. But you could easily have taken another island in the area, away from the Chinese territories and assume that island to be uninhabited and useable for gunnery practice.

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Originally posted by Rooijen10

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as for the Soko Islands historically being used for gunnery practice, I honestly don't know, and either answer would not suprise me.

This is Wesworld, so whatever the islands were used for in OTL, it could be different here. But you could easily have taken another island in the area, away from the Chinese territories and assume that island to be uninhabited and useable for gunnery practice.

My assumption (backed up by quick research on a few specific islands in the criteria) is that any islands near the Chinese coast not within Hong Kong waters is claimed by, and generally recognized as Chinese. This then mandated the use of something within Hong Kong waters, and the Soko islands were the only ones I could find that weren't inhabited to some degree. Furthermore, none of the other islands are any further away from Chinese territory (Hong Kong isn't exactly a huge tract of territory, remember), and most of the rest would in fact be closer to the Chinese mainland, and presumably more worrisome.