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41

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 4:47am

Quoted

Canada isn't excersizing in international waters. They're excersizing in their own territory

Actually, they're not. Their territory is around Canada, on the right side of the Pacific. Canada is a right and just nation so they belong on the right side of the Pacific. :)

Quoted

And I know for a fact that Japan has been known for doing so in the past (and not neccesarily staying outside that 3 mile limit, too)

Once, together with Italy and Iberia.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Aug 10th 2010, 4:50am)


42

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 4:49am

Indian ships 3 miles from the Aussie coast might find that the Aussie miles 'happens' to be slightly longer than the International mile...

Notice that my comment was on exercising within my own territorial waters, not in international ones.

No need for ICBMs when SRBMs and ALCMs will do the job just fine... :D

43

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 4:49am

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

Canada isn't excersizing in international waters. They're excersizing in their own territory

Actually, they're not. Their territory is around Canada, on the right side of the Pacific. Canada is a right and just nation so they belong on the right side of the Pacific. :)


But Might makes Right, and with the RN just over the horizon, the RCN is always on the Right side of things. ^_^

44

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 4:50am

True. But I will be in international waters and that is the point. Why the Australian fleet will interfere by what we are doing in International Waters. Maybe because they will consider that provocative perhaps? We will not be interfering with commerce or the movement of ships no more than a large RAN presence would have caused and if the RAN shoots first they are the guilty party.

Now see the actions on the eyes of the Chinese. Your're starting an unannounced exercise close to their borders after their latest actions and you expect them not to be ready to war. It was provocative and looking for them to attack.

45

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 4:54am

Is not an argument. I just fail to see their logic. So Australia claims the twelve miles. But China could not? So India could practice out of their territorial waters no problem then?

46

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 4:55am

China can claim the 12 miles all they want, it won't make a different here. The Soho Islands are recognized British territory, so it wouldn't matter if it was 3 or 12.

47

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 4:59am

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
China can claim the 12 miles all they want, it won't make a different here. The Soho Islands are recognized British territory, so it wouldn't matter if it was 3 or 12.


Soko been British is not the issue. They are. Is that China is been accused of trying to get a twelve mile territorial claim also as been the reason it started it all and is been denied of doing so while it seems Australia do claim 12 mile territorial waters? Is that the claimed territorial borders of Canada also? Not picking a fight just want to get the facts from both sides.

48

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:03am

I don't see how territorial waters should matter in this.....BTW, I believe 6 miles was the internationally accepted limited, IIRC?

49

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:04am

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
True. But I will be in international waters and that is the point. Why the Australian fleet will interfere by what we are doing in International Waters. Maybe because they will consider that provocative perhaps? We will not be interfering with commerce or the movement of ships no more than a large RAN presence would have caused and if the RAN shoots first they are the guilty party.

Now see the actions on the eyes of the Chinese. Your're starting an unannounced exercise close to their borders after their latest actions and you expect them not to be ready to war. It was provocative and looking for them to attack.


The point I'm making is that you say your hypothetical Indian fleet is conducting gunnery excersizes. On what? The only thing to shoot at is Australia, which is something I very much doubt the Aussies would appreciate. If they're just loitering around not shooting at anything, then the most you'd expect is some Australian ships following you around keeping an eye on things; Exactly what some RCN units did when the Italians were wandering around the Caribbean, and what the RCN did when they found a Japanese Carrier loitering around the Pacific Coast of Mexico.

Excersizes happen in Interntional waters all the time. Every single one of NATO's fleet excersizes have been predominatly in International waters. But none of this has any bearing on what you're harassing Canada about; the RCN was conducting excersizes within Commonwealth Territory. Nothing you're trying to bring as comparison (historical or hypothetical) is in line with those facts.

(As for whether or not the act was provocative...well, you don't seem to be considering whether or not it was meant to be provocative.)

50

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:08am

Umm... when has Australia ever claimed 12 nm?

51

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:11am

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
(As for whether or not the act was provocative...well, you don't seem to be considering whether or not it was meant to be provocative.)

I'm still waiting for China to declare that the cruise of Chile's Fast Carrier Force to Manila, Hai Phong, and Hong Kong was provocative.

52

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:20am

Motion to vote: (IC)

Bharat presents a motion of a vote of censure against Canada for their lack of National Courtesy by not providing China with beforehand knowledge of an millitary exercise in Hong Kong. While Canada and the Commonwealth are on their right to exercise in Hong Kong at the discretion of the owner till 1997, The British Government, the Canadian deliberately omitted this exercise will contain parts of it that would happen less than twenty kilometers from Chinese territorial waters. That is a definete provocative action aimed at forcing China to attack Canadian ships, either on purpose or by accident.

While we know that the British Government would not have involved willingly in this act and we don't condone the previous Chinese actions that resulted in this exercise we ask the League to forget about recent actions of late and look and what almost happened; a nation tried to fool another into attacking them to achieve a moral advantage in an issue that according to sources is been negotiated by the Chinese and British Governments, with Canada not included.

This esteem League of Nations is the result of similar actions a generation ago. Lucky for the World China showed some restrain and did the right thing. Plea the League for neutral advise. As such we ask the other nation members to vote in this issue.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "perdedor99" (Aug 10th 2010, 5:23am)


53

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:27am

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
I don't see how territorial waters should matter in this.....BTW, I believe 6 miles was the internationally accepted limited, IIRC?

From Wikipedia, the modern-day territorial sea claims are:

Quoted

- None: Bosnia and Herzegovina, which is not a landlocked country.
- 3 nautical miles (5.6 km): Jordan, Palau, Singapore
- 6 nautical miles (11.1 km): Dominican Republic, Greece, Turkey (but only in the Aegean Sea)
- 12 nautical miles (22.2 km): Albania, Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belgium, Belize, Brazil, Brunei, Bouvet Island[8] Bulgaria, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Chile, People's Republic of China, Republic of China, Colombia, Comoros, Cook Islands, Costa Rica, Cote d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Estonia, Faroe Islands, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Latvia, Lebanon, Libya, Lithuania, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Micronesia, Monaco, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nauru, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Niue, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Romania, Russia, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, São Tomé and Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Sweden, Syria, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey (in the Black sea and Mediterranean), Tuvalu, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, United States of America, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen
- 12 nautical miles: Slovenia
- 30 nautical miles (55.6 km): Togo
- 200 nautical miles (370.4 km): Benin, Republic of the Congo, Ecuador, El Salvador, Liberia, Peru, Somalia


Please note, however, that this is the list of claims per 2010, with the 12-mile limit being established in 1981 (IIRC). The claims in the 1930s and 1940s were more towards the three-mile limit. The concept of territorial waters dates back to at least the 1700s, where the distance was defined as "a cannon-shot" - basically meaning that if your coastal guns could hit it, it was yours. The increased ranges of naval artillery and more accurate methods of rangefinding caused the shift to the three-mile limit then the twelve-mile limit.

There are additional clauses and such about how enclosed bays, internal seas, and such are accounted for.

54

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:31am

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
Lol...Peru.

Precisely. :P

Edit: and another post ninja'd!

55

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:33am

I promise, I didn't delete that....

56

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:35am

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Motion to vote: (IC)

Bharat presents a motion of a vote of censure against Canada for their lack of National Courtesy by not providing China with beforehand knowledge of an millitary exercise in Hong Kong. While Canada and the Commonwealth are on their right to exercise in Hong Kong at the discretion of the owner till 1997, The British Government, the Canadian deliberately omitted this exercise will contain parts of it that would happen less than twenty kilometers from Chinese territorial waters. That is a definete provocative action aimed at forcing China to attack Canadian ships, either on purpose or by accident.

While we know that the British Government would not have involved willingly in this act and we don't condone the previous Chinese actions that resulted in this exercise we ask the League to forget about recent actions of late and look and what almost happened; a nation tried to fool another into attacking them to achieve a moral advantage in an issue that according to sources is been negotiated by the Chinese and British Governments, with Canada not included.

This esteem League of Nations is the result of similar actions a generation ago. Lucky for the World China showed some restrain and did the right thing. Plea the League for neutral advise. As such we ask the other nation members to vote in this issue.


Canada motions for a Point of Order on the proposed motion; the motion contains Facts not in Evidence, speculating as to the motives behind Canada's actions.

Furthermore, Canada strenuously objects to the 'discourteous' and slanderous attempt by the Bharati delegate's attempt to classify what they admit to be fully legal, and internal matters as an attempt to somehow engineer a shooting war with a foreign power.

Canada does not start wars, Mr. Delegate, unlike others we could mention.

57

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:38am

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
I promise, I didn't delete that....

I had some difficulties trying to quote it; it was gone when I finally got it posted. No idea.

58

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:44am

Australia votes Nay *glowers at the Bharati delegate*

The Mexican rep is not present (abstain), he can be found outside trowing darts at a picture of the Caracioolo.

Edit: And another post ninja'd...

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Desertfox" (Aug 10th 2010, 5:45am)


59

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:45am

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Australia votes Nay *glowers at the Bharati delegate*

The Mexican rep is not present (abstain), he can be found outside trowing darts at a picture of the Caracioolo.

Edit: And another post ninja'd...


And the reasoning for the vote? In IC or at least the IC reasoning.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "perdedor99" (Aug 10th 2010, 5:46am)


60

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 5:49am

That last question should be fairly obvious.....

*throws darts at a picture of the Pancho Villa*