WesWorld

Amends to vote of censure for Canada. Violation of Customary International Law. Canada would have expected the same courtesy of any nation doing an exercise close to their borders, especially so close as the exercise in Hong Kong was. The censure is not for doing their exercise, is for not beforehand inform China of how close the exercise was to their borders.

As was stated before Italy, Nato and other of the supranational organizations has officially announced through public forums of their intentions of performing naval exercises in International waters in the past. Canada has refused to follow what it seems as customary in the International community, the only information the Chinese had was the arrival of the ships to Hong Kong. It was lucky cooler heads prevailed and China presented their case to the League. China expected the exercises to be in International waters or further away from their border after reading the news from the press, not at less than twenty kilometers from their territory without prior knowledge.

Customary Law is recognized International Law and it is time to be recognized by all member nations in writing.

Canada would call for a point of order at this juncture, and requests to see the actual document or article it's a signatory to that requires one nation to inform another of internal concerns taking place within it's own borders (Or a third nation's borders, if you want to try seperating Canada and Hong Kong from the overall Commonwealth).

(A link to a historical precedent/treaty will suffice, unless you can find something in the WW Treaty section that covers this matter)

OOC: From what I recall, no formal protest was lodged anywhere in regards to the Italian visit to the Caribbean. Canada (and other nation's) domestic news reported discontent with the notion, and various ships were deployed to keep an eye on things, but the matter was certainly not brought to the LoN. And the Italians were not conducting business inside their own territory, either.

In short, various nations felt Italian ships had no particular business being in the Caribbean. You're claiming that Canada does have the rights to do whatever it wants within Commonwealth territory, but is somewhere compelled to clear such actions with China beforehand.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
Canada would call for a point of order at this juncture, and requests to see the actual document or article it's a signatory to that requires one nation to inform another of internal concerns taking place within it's own borders (Or a third nation's borders, if you want to try seperating Canada and Hong Kong from the overall Commonwealth).

(A link to a historical precedent/treaty will suffice, unless you can find something in the WW Treaty section that covers this matter)

Customary Law is not in writing. That is what we asking here also. To make official what It expected by all nations. And I presented my case. Other nations in WW have informed beforehand of their exercises to ensure no accidents occur. This exercise was so close to the Chinese border as like wanting an incident to occur.

The issue is not the exercise. The issue presented is that it was never annoucned through official channels as the Italian exercise was for example. IIRC Italy announced through the press than their fleet was doing maneuvers in the region in advance. Other nations have the right to complain but with the distances involved the change of incidents was smaller than in this case.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

In short, various nations felt Italian ships had no particular business being in the Caribbean. You're claiming that Canada does have the rights to do whatever it wants within Commonwealth territory, but is somewhere compelled to clear such actions with China beforehand.

not clear. Just inform through secure channels. and then go and do your thing. If they want to protest all they want you did the right thing by making sure they don't get the wrong idea.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Amends to vote of censure for Canada. Violation of Customary International Law. Canada would have expected the same courtesy of any nation doing an exercise close to their borders, especially so close as the exercise in Hong Kong was. The censure is not for doing their exercise, is for not beforehand inform China of how close the exercise was to their borders.

As was stated before Italy, Nato and other of the supranational organizations has officially announced through public forums of their intentions of performing naval exercises in International waters in the past. Canada has refused to follow what it seems as customary in the International community, the only information the Chinese had was the arrival of the ships to Hong Kong. It was lucky cooler heads prevailed and China presented their case to the League. China expected the exercises to be in International waters or further away from their border after reading the news from the press, not at less than twenty kilometers from their territory without prior knowledge.

Customary Law is recognized International Law and it is time to be recognized by all member nations in writing.

1. Chile states their disapproval of the way Canada did not inform China of military exercises in nearby waters to Chinese territorial waters. Chile believes this is a breach of national courtesy, but not a breach of so-called "customary law".
2. Chile states their disapproval of China's attempts to demand prior notification of non-Chinese military movements in international or non-Chinese territorial waters. Chile believes this constitutes a potentially hostile act, and violates the long-recognized freedom of navigation as established in international law.
3. Chile states their opinion that the military exercises causing the condemnation as per point one are a response to previous hostility established by China. Chile believes point one was a miscalculated response to the provocation involved in point two.

The Republic of Chile cannot condemn Canadian actions so long as the League ignores China's predicated attempts to threaten and cajole foreign governments. By concentrating solely on Canada's "diplomatic faux pas" in not previously informing China of military exercises, the League is overlooking the hostile exchange which led to the incident.

Chile therefore intends to vote nay to any proposed future motion that does not condemn both parties in proportion to the offense caused.

OOC: Brock, you pretty much sums up Bharat's real stand. Do they care of the result? No Why? Because China is guilty of starting this mess and they are reaping the results. We only use the opportunity to tar the "good guys" by their hamfisted attempt of diplomacy/bullying in trying to present their point.

And we will not say that to China or anyone in character. Plus yes, we are separating Canada from the rest of the Commonwealth. At least Australia announced beforehand of the provocative "visit" of Tiger.

Bharat votes aye. We think Canada is on their right to do the exercise and move the RCN to Singapore or Hong Kong if they want. Is the way they handled it is so out of the character the Commonwealth is trying to project to WW. Of the "good guys." You don't have too many chances to tarnish their image worldwide. Chile stating their disapproval is a victory.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Bharat votes aye.

You've tripped me up enough on League of Nations proposals, so now it's my turn.

You've not yet published any text regarding the proposal you just voted "aye" on.

Latvia is.....rather concerned by this scenario. Military exercises, in Latvia's opinion, if conducted in that nations waters, or in another nations waters with their permission, should not have to be told to a foreign nation. As a matter of courtsy, it would be nice, but it is by no means mandatory.....

*Latvian naval attache to the LoN scurries back to the secret Latvian castle in Cesis to plot BFE' 40, keeping the plans secret from the Chinese, who would demand to know about it beforehand....*

OOC Mexico routinely holds major military exercises in the state of Sonora just south of the US border with Arizona. No complaints from the US so far. And Mexico most certainly wouldn't be telling anyone about any exercises it holds in its own territorial waters of Cancun, or Australia in New Guinea.

*complains*

Isn't Mexico an ally of the US? Should the US be worried about Mexican mischief?

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Isn't Mexico an ally of the US? Should the US be worried about Mexican mischief?

And the DEI of Australlia. Plus Cancun is twenty kilometers of what? More Mexican territory and international waters. Guatemala and Cuba are so far that a misplaced round will not reach them. Except if Mexico has ICBMs

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Isn't Mexico an ally of the US? Should the US be worried about Mexican mischief?

Who shouldn't be worried about Mexican Mischief?

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Except if Mexico has ICBMs

Quit giving him ideas, he's difficult enough as it is.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
So I guess is okay if the Bharati fleet do their next exercise three miles of Perth or from what Australia calls International Waters and do some heavy weapons exercises. Of course unannounced. We dont need to, is international waters.

Canada isn't excersizing in international waters. They're excersizing in their own territory

(and what would you be shooting at from 3 miles off the Aussie coast, if not Oz itself?)

How curious. The post I'm quoting seems to have disappeared.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
So I guess is okay if the Bharati fleet do their next exercise three miles of Perth or from what Australia calls International Waters and do some heavy weapons exercises. Of course unannounced. We dont need to, is international waters.

Canada isn't excersizing in international waters. They're excersizing in their own territory

(and what would you be shooting at from 3 miles off the Aussie coast, if not Oz itself?)

How curious. The post I'm quoting seems to have disappeared.

Whups, ninja'd!

OOC: The defense been used now is that curtailed the use of International Waters. So if Bharat wants to train outside of Australian Waters who is the Commonwelath to tell them not to do it? Of what is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

My point is how you guys got upset about just posting that crap about training near Australai and deleting it inmediatly. Image if the Japanese fleet decided to do exercises off the the coast of Halifax unannounced?

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
OOC: The defense been used now is that curtailed the use of International Waters. So if Bharat wants to train outside of Australian Waters who is the Commonwelath to tell them not to do it? Of what is good for the goose is not good for the gander?

My point is how you guys got upset about just posting that crap and deleting it inmediatly. Image if the Japanese fleet decided to do exercises off the the coast of Halifax unannounced?

If you interfere with commerce and are shooting at Australia from the 3 mile limit, I suspect you'll end up dealing with the RAN in short order.

Likewise, the Japanese can do whatever they want in International waters, so long it doesn't interfere with the proper and legal activities of others. And I know for a fact that Japan has been known for doing so in the past (and not neccesarily staying outside that 3 mile limit, too)

And who's upset about something being deleted? And why are things being deleted? Calm down, my dear fellow, 'tis only a game.

And we can shoot at targets pulled by tugs. All carried in commercial ships and tenders.

Ya'll, calm down....seriously, this isn't the time or place for an argument.