WesWorld

The two CLs of the Liepzig class have never been regarded as totally successful, due to their machinery causing uncomfortable vibrations and being somewhat unreliable. In 1939 a proposal was made that, with the approaching availability of new CLs, the two ships could be fitted with new machinery and also used as a trials ship for the new 15cm automatic cannon.

Liepzig, Germany Light Cruiser laid down 1928 (Engine 1940)

Displacement:
8,101 t light; 8,470 t standard; 9,343 t normal; 10,042 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
641.48 ft / 623.36 ft x 62.34 ft x 18.70 ft (normal load)
195.52 m / 190.00 m x 19.00 m x 5.70 m

Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 100.31lbs / 45.50kg shells, 1940 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
2 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (1x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 981 lbs / 445 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
16 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.13" / 105 mm 359.06 ft / 109.44 m 9.48 ft / 2.89 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 67,681 shp / 50,490 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,572 tons

Complement:
474 - 617

Cost:
£2.499 million / $9.997 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 140 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,653 tons, 17.7 %
- Belts: 595 tons, 6.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 263 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 750 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,810 tons, 19.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,788 tons, 40.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,242 tons, 13.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 710 tons, 7.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,089 lbs / 6,391 Kg = 136.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.67 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.54 ft / 8.70 m
- Forecastle (24 %): 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Stern: 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Average freeboard: 19.18 ft / 5.85 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.2 %
Waterplane Area: 25,747 Square feet or 2,392 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 476 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

150 tons (50 tons per mount) additional weight reserved for autoloading 15cm mountings.

30 tons reserved for radar.

50 tons reserved for aircraft.

40 tons reserved for reload torpedoes.

450 tons reserved for mines and future growth.

DP, or just Auto?

Both. Think USS Worchester, or the Dutch De Ruyter.

Something tells me it's a bit too early for that, maybe about 10 years....I can't buy that a decent Automatic DP 6'' gun can be made at this point in history...maybe in about three years.

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
Something tells me it's a bit too early for that, maybe about 10 years....I can't buy that a decent Automatic DP 6'' gun can be made at this point in history...maybe in about three years.

Heh, well, wait and see...... Besides, there's a REASON the initial post in this thread has the words "trials ship" in the text.....

You would need pretty serious changes below decks to fit these kinds of guns. I'm not saying its impossible but it would be expensive. Even so actually testing the guns at sea is a huge advance over basic tests on static mounts on land.

Why rebuild both ships as trials vessels?

An 8k ton 9x6" gun ship is kind of a minnow in the WW Waters, so it doesn't seem quite that odd to make them more useful as trials ships. Canada's been considering something similar with an oddball ship we have dibs on.

Provided the prototype mounts are being designed with that space in mind, I don't see the problems of fitting a twin auto turret stack into a triple's barbette as insurmountable, but that's my layman's opinion.

I'd personally have preferred to hear about some land-based trials before a ship-based mount is produced, but that's mostly because that's how I introduced and developed my own mounts. Deciding what kind of news to write is always a tricky and occasionally subjective decision.

As for building two...He's got two ships, and redundancy can't be a bad idea. Especially if something rams when it should've reset and detonates with some spectacular-ness.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
As for building two...He's got two ships, and redundancy can't be a bad idea. Especially if something rams when it should've reset and detonates with some spectacular-ness.

Didn't know the Germans were hiring smoking Fillipinos as trial ship crews...

If the refits happen, they won't be simultaneous, the second ship will get refitted a year or more after the lead ship. That way there is time to learn lessons from the lead ship and to incorporate changes.


The work on these started WAY back in the 1932/33 time frame, there's mention of them (and not being ready yet) back the Q2 1934 German news.


Since I'm replacing the problematic geared diesels with a German-standard CODAS power plant, I'm looking at a 50% rebuild anyway, which means I can make barbette alterations if I needed to.

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
Something tells me it's a bit too early for that, maybe about 10 years....I can't buy that a decent Automatic DP 6'' gun can be made at this point in history...maybe in about three years.

There's a noticeable time period between when the various automatic guns went to sea, and when they actually worked well (and some of them never did).