WesWorld

So they came out a little lighter than I planned, but that's not a bad thing.

RHN DE-1 Kikládhes Class, Greek Destroyer Escort laid down 1940

Displacement:
910 t light; 956 t standard; 1,043 t normal; 1,113 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
312.00 ft / 306.00 ft x 30.60 ft x 9.75 ft (normal load)
95.10 m / 93.27 m x 9.33 m x 2.97 m

Armament:
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 59.90lbs / 27.17kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.17lbs / 0.98kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.17lbs / 0.98kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 139 lbs / 63 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 24,000 shp / 17,904 Kw = 32.59 kts
Range 3,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 157 tons

Complement:
91 - 119

Cost:
£0.691 million / $2.762 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 1.7 %
Machinery: 488 tons, 46.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 354 tons, 34.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 134 tons, 12.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
345 lbs / 156 Kg = 5.5 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.94

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.23 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 74
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.70 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (42 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 13.48 ft / 4.11 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.6 %
Waterplane Area: 5,982 Square feet or 556 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 151 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.22
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Ships in class include:
Amorgós
Anáf
Ándros
Antíparos
Dlos
Eschát
Íos
Kéa
KímMlos
Kýthnos

With the planned construction Greece could make some money by selling some of their older designs. Some of the ships just got some refits not too long ago so they could fetch a nice price in the open market.

Hint, hint....

Seakeeping rating shouldn't be too bad, since you're in the Med, but I still don't really like it....

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
Hint, hint....

Seakeeping rating shouldn't be too bad, since you're in the Med, but I still don't really like it....

I'm not to worried about seakeeping on something this size, especially in the Med.

I'm a firm believer that the value SpringSharp gives for seakeeping on ships smaller than ~5,000t is rediculously low and puts too much emphasis on freeboard on not enough on the hulls ability to 'ride' the waves.

On the other sim board I'm on one of the Mods SS'd a wide variety of RL DDs using Raven's & Robert's and a few other reference books to get dimentions/speeds/etc. and on AVG SS seakeeping for MOST RL WWII era DDs was like 0.60-0.75.

Sachmle.

I'm on that board too, and I have the link to that arguement on my favorites. All light ships here are errored, but they will all be errored in the same way for all nations, meaning equality. In the Med, for example, I wouldn't be concerned that badly about the seaboat quality, just if it was above .70. However, in the North Atlantic, or Pacific, would you take the same risk?

Beside, the seaboat quality is also a indication of at what sea state you can maintain full speed. A ship like a Varonis could probebly maintain it up to a State 2 1/2 at full speed, while this one couldn't do full speed at a State 2.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
With the planned construction Greece could make some money by selling some of their older designs. Some of the ships just got some refits not too long ago so they could fetch a nice price in the open market.

If you're referring to the older DDs, most of them (Imp Doxa/Kouriotis, Makriyannis, and Deliyannis classes) are built either under old rules that allowed lower cross-sectional values, but they're also un-simmable as listed. I tried all 3 class AS LISTED and the sim reports gave overall hull strength below 0.50 for all of them. Seems they're more 'cut-n-paste' than actual sims. I've 'fixed' them and forwarded them to Brock for review.

TC: I know you're on that board. I also don't intend to either:

A) Limit the speed of my DD/DEs

B) Put ridiculously high freeboard on them.

C) Make them ludicrously large

for the sake of "Seakeeping".

Again this is a lot of stuff put on a small hull. Do you have a deck view of her?

Quoted

Originally posted by Sachmle
TC: I know you're on that board. I also don't intend to either:

A) Limit the speed of my DD/DEs

B) Put ridiculously high freeboard on them.

C) Make them ludicrously large

for the sake of "Seakeeping".

No one said you had to. I'm merely pointing out that the destroyers probebly won't be able to go full speed in anything more than a State 1.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Again this is a lot of stuff put on a small hull. Do you have a deck view of her?

No I don't, and I was a little worried too. However, it's really only narrow. At 306' long she's only 14' shorter than some of alt_naval's DDs which carried up to 5 single 5" and 6 TT.

Basic layout idea was 5" singles in A and Y w/ a twin 40mm in B and X. The other 2 twin 40mm are amidships on towers towards the edge of the deck. The TT are 2 sets of twin tubes fore and aft the midships 40mm towers. The 20mm twins are along side and slightly behind the bridge and in a similar position forward of the aft centerline 40mm.

I'm absolutely terrible at overhead drawings. If anyone wants to try, please be my guest.

From what I recall, SS calculates armament weight off factors determined for big guns (6-8" and larger). Smaller guns are not quite so accurate weight-wise.

Remember though that you need to add, as an example, turret armour to get the weight of a particular gun.

Quoted

Originally posted by exigeant
In this ship I cannot see any gun-house or shield (armour) specified so there are no additional weights?

Sorry if I appear slow but I'm trying to understand

Seems correct; these would be open deck mounts if so.

The open mounts were an oops. Fixed her up a little.

RHN DE-1 Kikládhes Class, Greek Destroyer Escort laid down 1940

Displacement:
925 t light; 972 t standard; 1,060 t normal; 1,131 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
312.00 ft / 306.00 ft x 30.60 ft x 10.40 ft (normal load)
95.10 m / 93.27 m x 9.33 m x 3.17 m

Armament:
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 59.90lbs / 27.17kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.17lbs / 0.98kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.17lbs / 0.98kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 139 lbs / 63 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 24,000 shp / 17,904 Kw = 32.63 kts
Range 3,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 159 tons

Complement:
92 - 120

Cost:
£0.700 million / $2.800 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 7 tons, 0.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 495 tons, 46.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 365 tons, 34.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 135 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
358 lbs / 162 Kg = 5.7 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.381
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.70 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (42 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 13.71 ft / 4.18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.0 %
Waterplane Area: 5,926 Square feet or 551 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 72 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 153 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.42
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Ships in class include:
Amorgós
Anáf
Ándros
Antíparos
Dlos
Eschát
Íos
Kéa
Kímolos
Kýthnos

This is the side view of the DE AMORGOS of the Kiklades class DE

I like the detail on the TT mounts.

Cool!

Great!!!