WesWorld

I know the sim supports purchasing more slips and drydocks, and even creating new ports, but is there any provision for selling unneeded facilities to the private sector? Since they're fixed, it's not really practical to sell this sort of infrastructure to foreign countries after all....

I think that's only a problem for big countries

But you are right, we have to find a solution for this "problem"

I guess it is okay to declare any portion of your infrastructure now being private and no longer available.... Simply put it on a puplic board, the infrastructure board for example, and it´s done.

The question is, what price would the private sector pay for the infrastructure?


Yes, this is currently only going to be a "problem" for large countries, and only some of those. The US, however, has a LOT more infrastructure than it's naval budget can make use of.

I would think that could benifit the U.S., if they offered to provide slips for repairs ect for a slight fee.

My main question would be whether it was done historically. A dry dock may not be just a dry dock if festooned with military equipment. Difficult to see dry docks or slipways over Type 2 being useful for the private sector anyway.

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Originally posted by TexanCowboy

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I would think that could benifit the U.S., if they offered to provide slips for repairs ect for a slight fee.

Yes, because you can always repair on slips...

Up to 500 tons or so, that's normal practice. It can be made to work for bigger ships, too, but it isn't worth the hassle.

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Now, if it's possible to dismantle a drydock, and transport it, Latvia would be very interested in buying a Type 1....

The expensive bits will be lock gates, cranes, pumping gear et cetera. Those can certainly be dismantled and moved. A drydock itself is little more complicated than a reinforced hole in the ground.

May I propose that if a player country wishes to buy shipyard equipment from another, the emplacement costs are:

20% of the base cost of a slipway, or
25% of the base cost of a drydock (since a drydock needs more digging, and stabilised walls)

These costs being additional to the agreed upon price for the 'movable' equipment from the previous site.

Someone making that kind of comment started a discussion as to how feasible it was to haul a ship back up a slip for repairs or refit, come to think of it.

As for selling off infrastructure...I'm not sure about it. It's one thing to sell a dock or slipway to a civilian yard, but that presumes there's a civilian concern capable of taking it up and using it. There's also the matter of what gets sold; I don't see the Navy selling off a handful of slips at Norfolk or Mare Island.

Even more so, I can't see slips or docks being dismantled for usable warship (or even industrial) material, certaintly not enough to be economic.

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I would think that could benifit the U.S., if they offered to provide slips for repairs ect for a slight fee.

Most countries out there have enough infrastructure for their needs now, and the competition for the contracts for the ones that don't is pretty cut-throat, with profits dropping all around.

Conversely could a government buy access to commerical slips and dock in wartime?

Even nations like GB have more commerical slips and boatyards than listed in the infrastructure list. I'm sure all nations in WW would.
For a major world war scenario a nation would use all its capacity and not just its military naval yards.

*Casts the spell "Resurrect Thread".*

If the wartime experience of the US or UK can be taken as an example, there is a significant distinction between shipyards deemed capable of building regular naval warships and yards capable of building merchant vessels. In both nations, not all yards capable of building warships are owned by the Government, and such privately owned yards would turn their hands to mercantile construction when naval business was slack.

Privately-owned shipyards that did not, as a rule, construct warships would be called upon to do so in time of war. However, care needs to be taken as to what such commercial yards built. Take for example the OTL Colossus and Majestic class CVLs of the Royal Navy. These were expressly built to mercantile rather than naval standards, and were built in yards that did not normally build such large warships. The great mass of wartime escorts - corvettes, frigates and the like, were usually built to mercantile standards in mercantile yards; the USN's DEs, I admit, stand half-way between.

I do not believe that a blanket rule to allow nearly unlimited naval construction in commercial shipyards in time of war would be a good thing. The limiting factor would still be the availability of shipbuilding materials - ship steel, engines, armament - defined by the number of factories available to produce such. The existing wartime production rules allow for the acceleration of such, and should form the basis of any rules revision we choose to take.

Uh.

I thought this was about selling infrastructure to gain IP, not taking over civilian yards for military purposes.

It wasn't cllear whether you were shifting everything not pertaining to floating drydocks over here or just the question of selling/recycling/other utilization of existing infrastructure.

The one thread had become rather hydra-headed.

Let's keep this focused on the concept of selling/scrapping infrastructure for now. Using unaccounted for Civilian yards for wartime production is likely something needing a thread of it's own (But I wouldn't expect it to go anywhere, honestly).

My earlier musings on this subject remain in play, however; I don't see a whole lot to reclaim from scrapping a dock. It's mostly a big hole, and the specialized equipment isn't easy to repurpose or reclaim. Same for a slip, except minus the big hole.

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Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
My earlier musings on this subject remain in play, however; I don't see a whole lot to reclaim from scrapping a dock. It's mostly a big hole, and the specialized equipment isn't easy to repurpose or reclaim. Same for a slip, except minus the big hole.

Though, at least in theory, such a facility could be "sold to a civilian firm" in exchange for the in-game currency of IP. Which would, in turn, permit the purchase or expansion of another yard someplace else.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine

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Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
My earlier musings on this subject remain in play, however; I don't see a whole lot to reclaim from scrapping a dock. It's mostly a big hole, and the specialized equipment isn't easy to repurpose or reclaim. Same for a slip, except minus the big hole.

Though, at least in theory, such a facility could be "sold to a civilian firm" in exchange for the in-game currency of IP. Which would, in turn, permit the purchase or expansion of another yard someplace else.

"Scrapping" is probably the wrong idea, you're not really scrapping it as much as you're selling it to the civilian economy for use in shipbuilding or repair. After all, a new slip or dock might just as well be an existing slip or dock purchased by the government as one that's newly built from the ground up (or down, as the case may be).

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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
"Scrapping" is probably the wrong idea, you're not really scrapping it as much as you're selling it to the civilian economy for use in shipbuilding or repair. After all, a new slip or dock might just as well be an existing slip or dock purchased by the government as one that's newly built from the ground up (or down, as the case may be).

That brings up my other point of it being impractical to sell a slip or two from a major base installation to a civilian concern, assuming there's one ready and willing to pony out the cash for it.

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Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
"Scrapping" is probably the wrong idea, you're not really scrapping it as much as you're selling it to the civilian economy for use in shipbuilding or repair. After all, a new slip or dock might just as well be an existing slip or dock purchased by the government as one that's newly built from the ground up (or down, as the case may be).

That brings up my other point of it being impractical to sell a slip or two from a major base installation to a civilian concern, assuming there's one ready and willing to pony out the cash for it.

You're assuming that the yard is actually inside a base of some sort, which isn't necessarily the case. And, there are such things as base closures.

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Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
"Scrapping" is probably the wrong idea, you're not really scrapping it as much as you're selling it to the civilian economy for use in shipbuilding or repair. After all, a new slip or dock might just as well be an existing slip or dock purchased by the government as one that's newly built from the ground up (or down, as the case may be).

That brings up my other point of it being impractical to sell a slip or two from a major base installation to a civilian concern, assuming there's one ready and willing to pony out the cash for it.

If that happened at, for instance, the Philadelphia Naval Yards, I could see that being a legitimate concern. But is such a situation the norm?