WesWorld

In an attempt to catch up on some news, I have decided to post in history book format, as well as to condense what Brazil has been doing from 1937-39 in a series of posts based on this format.

Excerpt from Brazil, Our Nation by Jack Daniels

The Evolution of Tactics in the Brazilian Army

“Post South American War, the Brazilian Army was in a state of turmoil. The outbreak of the brief Civil War did not help things, and by the time 1937 rolled around very little in the way of rebuilding had be done, most of the Brazilian budget being spent on rebuilding the nation. However, although they would not have the funds to begin any sort of rearming for at least two years, the Imperial Brazilian General Staff did not waste the time given to them. Concentrating on the battles waged during the War, the General Staff came to the conclusion that the French doctrine of Firepower that Brazil had been following since the arrival of the French military mission at the end of the Great War was not at fault, although it could be revised and improved upon. Rather the conclusion that the Imperial General Staff came to, was that what needed to be improved upon was the addition of a mobile force able to outflank the enemy, while the main army held the attention of the enemy’s forces. However, the first priority for the Brazilian Army was rebuilding the shattered infantry divisions. As one leading general of the time said, tanks, planes, and ships are all very well and good, but the infantry is what wins or loses wars. The deployment of modern tanks by the RSAA had been quite a shock to the Brazilian army, and they had suffered heavily for it in the later stages of the war. To combat this threat, the IEB ( Imperial Exército Brasileiro) decided to deploy anti-tank rifles at the company level, and in the average Brazilian infantry division there were to be 57 57mm anti-tank guns. To add some mobility to the infantry divisions, without compromising their firepower, no guns larger than 105mm were to be used, although 122mm howitzers, and 155mm field artillery would be available at corps level. As well, to facilitate a breakthrough of enemy lines, a heavy tank brigade was to be added at the corps level as well, although it would be 1942 before the vehicles could be ordered for this.”

Searching for Friends

“The end of the South American War, showed to the IEB that they did not have the resources to defeat the SAE on their own, even with the assistance of Argentina. Chile was not involved in the war, and although it was possible that Chile could join in with Argentina and Brazil should their be a round two in the coming years, the IEB’s strategic planners concluded that even with Chilean assistance, it was doubtful that the ABC powers could completely defeat the SAE armies stationed in Gran Uruguay before reinforcements arrived from Africa. For although the IEB’s assumed they would have numerical superiority, the RSAA was a formidable well-trained foe. In late 1936, therefore the IEB advised the Prince-Regent that in their opinion unless Brazil managed to gain the friendship of a Great Power, it would be not impossible but in their words “extremely difficult” to defeat the SAE without the risk of massive casualties. The Prince-Regent took this news with stride, and mentioned three powers with the necessary strength to defeat the SAE; the United Kingdom, the United States, and the Empire of Atlantis. Each of these nations had their strengths and weaknesses in the eyes of the IEB, the UK had the largest fleet in the world, yet likely no real interest for a showdown with the RSAN. The US due to its population had the greatest wartime potential, yet seemed to be heading for isolation. And finally, Atlantis was the closest to Brazil, and had a substantial fleet in the Atlantic Ocean, but was the weakest member of the three powers, although it could still take on the SAE on equal terms. What decided which power Brazil chose to ally with, was the Chilean decision in 1936 to ally with FAR..............”

Atlantean-Brazilian relations

Brazil and Atlantis had historically had good relations between them, dating back to after the Napoleonic Wars in Europe, and the forming of the Iberian Federation when the Portugese Royal Family was kicked out of Portugal. However, during the reign of Emperor Pedro III, Atlantean-Brazilian relations became frosty, with Pedro’s decision to involve his nation in the Bolivian War, as well as the South American war being seen in a dim light by the Atlanteans. As well, his increasing friendship with the SATSUMA nations was also caused some concern in Cleito. However, after the confinement of Emperor Pedro to his palace in Rio, and the Regency by his Atlanteanphile son, Pedro IV relations began to improve. The sale of three of Brazil’s capital ships to Atlantis’s friend Columbia, the agreement by Brazil to allow Columbian gunboats to travel the river Amazon during the Peruvian Crisis, and the offer by Brazil to deploy warships to the Pacific in support of either Chile or Columbia during the Peruvian Crisis improved relations between the two nations to the extent, that when the Prime Minister of Brazil, Artur de Salazar requested a high level meeting between Brazil and Atlantis to discuss “things of great importance to our two nations,” in 1939, the offer was accepted by the Atlantean government, and on February 11th, 1939 Prince Regent Pedro, and Prime Minister Artur de Salazar both left Brazil with the Second Scouting Group enroute to Cleito.

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Chile was not involved in the war, and although it was possible that Chile could join in with Argentina and Brazil should their be a round two in the coming years, the IEB’s strategic planners concluded that even with Chilean assistance, it was doubtful that the ABC powers could completely defeat the SAE armies stationed in Gran Uruguay before reinforcements arrived from Africa.

Unlikely to have much effect: from a purely strategic viewpoint, Chile is unlikely to send (many) troops to fight in an eastern SAmerican war versus the SAE. Chile has the smallest population of the three ABC powers and is mostly focused on creating a small but crack militia army to resist invasion: not the sort of force appropriate to challenging the SAE. The Navy, on the other hand, might have made a decent showing, and now that the Air Force is being kept up to date, then they would likely show against the SAE. The Army... not so much.

Next, having fought two wars in the last decade, both forced upon them, the Chileans are a bit... well, isolationist themselves, and don't want to get involved in another war. They'll fight to support allies and resist invasion, but they'd rather not.

Finally, one of the reasons Chile took the supporting roles in the recent war was due to some backdoor deals. Nordmark was on the sidelines ready and willing to join up with the SAE, and Chilean intelligence learned that if Chile had joined the war, then Nordmark would have joined the war as well. The Chileans chose to maintain (a somewhat dubious) neutrality and keep another major power from joining the opposition; and by keeping their embassy open in Cape Town, and the SAE's embassy in Santiago, Chile tried to keep the communication channels open to help resolve the war. (And you'll note that this is precisely how the war ended; Chile hosted the peace talks between Argentina and South Africa, so the Chileans feel vindicated that they made the right decision.)

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
The Prince-Regent took this news with stride, and mentioned three powers with the necessary strength to defeat the SAE; the United Kingdom, the United States, and the Empire of Atlantis. Each of these nations had their strengths and weaknesses in the eyes of the IEB, the UK had the largest fleet in the world, yet likely no real interest for a showdown with the RSAN. The US due to its population had the greatest wartime potential, yet seemed to be heading for isolation. And finally, Atlantis was the closest to Brazil, and had a substantial fleet in the Atlantic Ocean, but was the weakest member of the three powers, although it could still take on the SAE on equal terms.

Actually, I'd say that Atlantis is in the middle of the three. Navalwise, they'll be ahead of the US but behind Britain; in terms of non-warship production, behind the US but likely ahead of Britain.

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
What decided which power Brazil chose to ally with, was the Chilean decision in 1936 to ally with FAR..............”

And it was the calculus above which influenced Chile's rationale to join FAR. Originally Chile was merely planning to make a Colombian-Chilean treaty, but that slowly grew into full FAR membership, as it cemented the existing ties. NATO was the other alternative, but that option was discarded as the US suddenly went isolationist, and Mexico is seen as a potential liability to relations with other countries. (Potential Liability =/= enemy.) Atlantis and FAR were dependable; they were existing strategic partners; thus they were the allies.

Quoted

Unlikely to have much effect: from a purely strategic viewpoint, Chile is unlikely to send (many) troops to fight in an eastern SAmerican war versus the SAE. Chile has the smallest population of the three ABC powers and is mostly focused on creating a small but crack militia army to resist invasion: not the sort of force appropriate to challenging the SAE. The Navy, on the other hand, might have made a decent showing, and now that the Air Force is being kept up to date, then they would likely show against the SAE. The Army... not so much.

The Brazilians on the other hand, do have quite a few people, ~40 million, so they can devote to a larger army, just not as large as before, the standing army will be around 250,000 to 275,000. Its the Navy, and somewhat the Air Force where Brazil is really weak.

Quoted

Next, having fought two wars in the last decade, both forced upon them, the Chileans are a bit... well, isolationist themselves, and don't want to get involved in another war. They'll fight to support allies and resist invasion, but they'd rather not.

The Brazilians just went through a war, and a civil war, they won't be ready for a defensive conflict till 42 at the earliest, never mind looking to start a scrap. Support their allies? Yes, defend their country? well, I do have alot of territory I can use to strategically retreat into.

Quoted

Actually, I'd say that Atlantis is in the middle of the three. Navalwise, they'll be ahead of the US but behind Britain; in terms of non-warship production, behind the US but likely ahead of Britain

True, however I am presuming Britain has more potential than Atlantis for non-naval production.

As for NATO, I too was looking at NATO in a favourable light, until the US went Isolationist, and right now Brazil has no interest in getting dragged into a war with AEGIS should Mexico start some shennaigans.

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian

Quoted

Actually, I'd say that Atlantis is in the middle of the three. Navalwise, they'll be ahead of the US but behind Britain; in terms of non-warship production, behind the US but likely ahead of Britain

True, however I am presuming Britain has more potential than Atlantis for non-naval production.

Probably not, actually. Atlantis has a population of 89 million, most of them in the homeland; Britain has, IIRC, around 48 million (and add Canada's 11 million and the Aussies+Kiwis at 7 million).

So Atlantis could be 75% as efficient as Britain and still outproduce them.

Canada's population should be higher than historical; One of the rationales I've had for Canada's increased productivity and independance, was capitalizing on the US being less fortunate than IRL, and siphoning off some of the massive immigration waves.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
Canada's population should be higher than historical; One of the rationales I've had for Canada's increased productivity and independance, was capitalizing on the US being less fortunate than IRL, and siphoning off some of the massive immigration waves.

How much higher?

If thats the case Canadian imigration numbers might not be as high as you think. Atlantis too (at least according to my history) benifited from the european imigration.

I'm puzzled as to what "less fortunate" event is supposed to have happened to the US. The Spanish-American War was not won, granted, but that had little to no impact on historical immigration (immigrants were coming to the continental US, not to the Caribbean or the Philippines). Staying out of WWI would not be counted as a "less fortunate" event, normally., either.

Well Atlantis is closer to Europe than America? That would mean less imigrants to the U.S. If thats more or less fortunate is another question.

Less fortunate, as evidenced by the lack of industrial output the US has compared to what you'd expect (Almost half of the British, even discounting Canada and Australia....while the Empire is smaller than historical, too), for one thing. I'd also cite the US being even more isolationist than historical, too.

Winning the Spanish American war is one of the things that moved America from being the newbie nation to a really respected power, too. Without that win, and the Phillipines, Cuba, and other territory not falling under US influence had to have some effect on development from that point

The "lack of industrial output" is a consequence of how the sim was set up in the first place: focused ONLY on capital warship construction, over the period running up to and including WWI (but not counting historical vessels not completed before the WNT), and the US not being a player country at the start. It has nothing to do with the US overall industrial capacity overall, only with the capability of the US to produce ships.

The UK's industrial capacity was overstated at the start of the sim because no account was taken of the loss of parts of the Empire, the historical capital ships built over the period were expected to still have been built.

Hmmm.... Am I reading this correctly? You are planning for a re-fight in 1942?

Me wonders what Hood/Argentina might think of this....

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Secret message to Nordmark and the Netherlands: Prepare your stocks, polish your swords and keep your rifles at hand. Take care of your ship so they stand ready when needed... ;o)

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Though my guards my sleep and ships may lay at anchor,
Our foes know full well that big guns never tire!

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Hmmm.... Am I reading this correctly? You are planning for a re-fight in 1942?

As I read it, Brazil sees itself as incapable of resisting foreign aggression, and is rearming in order to achieve self-defense capabilities. And the only thing I saw about 1942 was when vehicles were ordered for the tank brigade.

And I just noticed the name of the author of the book in the first post...

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Hmmm.... Am I reading this correctly? You are planning for a re-fight in 1942?

Me wonders what Hood/Argentina might think of this....

-------------------------------------------------

Secret message to Nordmark and the Netherlands: Prepare your stocks, polish your swords and keep your rifles at hand. Take care of your ship so they stand ready when needed... ;o)

--------------------------------------------------


Though my guards my sleep and ships may lay at anchor,
Our foes know full well that big guns never tire!

Defensive fight in 42, as in the SAE attacking Brazil? Certainly. Offensive, as in Brazil attacking the SAE? The IEB isn't looking for one for 10 years from 1939.
Between 1939 and 1942 the IEB will try their best to defend Brazilian territory should it come to that, look for powerful friends to defend them, and encourage Argentina and Chile not to start anything against the SAE, because quite frankly there is little the IEB can do till the infantry divisions are rearmed beyond throwing 40 million Brazilians armed with sticks at the RSAA, and we all know how effective that is. I do have quite abit of territory to give up, and the Brazilian capital might move a couple times as well.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
The "lack of industrial output" is a consequence of how the sim was set up in the first place: focused ONLY on capital warship construction, over the period running up to and including WWI (but not counting historical vessels not completed before the WNT), and the US not being a player country at the start. It has nothing to do with the US overall industrial capacity overall, only with the capability of the US to produce ships.

IIRC we stated we wanted the U.S. overall weaker than historically. The fact that the actual state of "weaker" shows only in the naval sector is, as you say, a product of how the sim is set up. We don't show factory's for air, ground and civil, otherwise they would be weaker too.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Hmmm.... Am I reading this correctly? You are planning for a re-fight in 1942?

Me wonders what Hood/Argentina might think of this....

-------------------------------------------------

Secret message to Nordmark and the Netherlands: Prepare your stocks, polish your swords and keep your rifles at hand. Take care of your ship so they stand ready when needed... ;o)

--------------------------------------------------


Though my guards my sleep and ships may lay at anchor,
Our foes know full well that big guns never tire!

*Atlantis raises an eyebrow*

Me wonder why the SAE is so eager to enter another war in South America when the last one was so costly for them?

That's a good question, considering that they still would have to wait another three years to get the Thunderer's online....

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Hmmm.... Am I reading this correctly? You are planning for a re-fight in 1942?

Secret message to Nordmark and the Netherlands: Prepare your stocks, polish your swords and keep your rifles at hand. Take care of your ship so they stand ready when needed... ;o)

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1942 is a good year for the Dutch to fight in

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Hmmm.... Am I reading this correctly? You are planning for a re-fight in 1942?

Secret message to Nordmark and the Netherlands: Prepare your stocks, polish your swords and keep your rifles at hand. Take care of your ship so they stand ready when needed... ;o)

--------------------------------------------------

1942 is a good year for the Dutch to fight in

Attack India?