Peruvian Abancay class

Scooby-Doo

Friday, March 5th 2010, 11:05am

Quoted

Machinery:
No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
No drive to shaft, 2 shafts, 15.202 shp / 11.341 Kw = 18,00 kts
Range 9.000nm at 13,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.969 tons

No engines is a problem, even if you have shafts.....

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

2

Friday, March 5th 2010, 12:04pm

Oeh stuped SpingSharp, I'll change

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

3

Friday, March 5th 2010, 12:09pm

To be repost

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ALVAMA" (Mar 5th 2010, 4:44pm)

Go to the top of the page

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

4

Friday, March 5th 2010, 1:35pm

She's not carrying a lot of cargo for her size.....

Also, why the electric motors vs geared drives?

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

5

Friday, March 5th 2010, 4:03pm

To be repost

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ALVAMA" (Mar 5th 2010, 4:44pm)

Go to the top of the page

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

6

Friday, March 5th 2010, 4:19pm

I'm not sure what the 5 ton miscellaneous weight are supposed to be for, they don't look useful so I'd get rid of them. You've still got some excess strength left, so I'd bump up the cargo capacity until I hit the 1.00 strength limit.

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

7

Friday, March 5th 2010, 4:45pm

Quoted

Abancay Pr.001, Peruvian Cargo laid down 1936

Displacement:
14.926 t light; 15.253 t standard; 16.373 t normal; 17.269 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(440,10 ft / 433,07 ft) x 60,70 ft x (24,61 / 25,86 ft)
(134,14 m / 132,00 m) x 18,50 m x (7,50 / 7,88 m)

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 15.550 shp / 11.600 Kw = 18,00 kts
Range 9.000nm at 13,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.016 tons

Complement:
723 - 940

Cost:
£3,077 million / $12,306 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 436 tons, 2,7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.505 tons, 21,4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.447 tons, 8,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10.984 tons, 67,1 %
- Hull below water: 5.492 tons
- Hull above water: 5.492 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20.401 lbs / 9.254 Kg = 188,9 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
Metacentric height 3,3 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 13,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,886 / 0,889
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30,00 %, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Aft deck: 25,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 20,47 ft / 6,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129,8 %
Waterplane Area: 25.031 Square feet or 2.325 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 454 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,07
- Longitudinal: 1,99
- Overall: 1,14
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Go to the top of the page

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

8

Friday, March 5th 2010, 4:59pm

Quoted

Originally posted by ALVAMA

Quoted

- Overall: 1,14

You can fit more cargo aboard..... and that's the point on a freighter, right?

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

9

Friday, March 5th 2010, 5:15pm

better?

Quoted

Abancay Pr.001, Peruvian Cargo laid down 1936

Displacement:
14.926 t light; 15.253 t standard; 16.373 t normal; 17.269 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(440,10 ft / 433,07 ft) x 60,70 ft x (24,61 / 25,86 ft)
(134,14 m / 132,00 m) x 18,50 m x (7,50 / 7,88 m)

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 15.550 shp / 11.600 Kw = 18,00 kts
Range 9.000nm at 13,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.016 tons

Complement:
723 - 940

Cost:
£3,077 million / $12,306 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 436 tons, 2,7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.339 tons, 20,4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.447 tons, 8,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 11.150 tons, 68,1 %
- Hull below water: 5.575 tons
- Hull above water: 5.575 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20.150 lbs / 9.140 Kg = 186,6 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 13,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,886 / 0,889
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30,00 %, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Aft deck: 25,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 20,47 ft / 6,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129,8 %
Waterplane Area: 25.031 Square feet or 2.325 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 433 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,02
- Longitudinal: 1,90
- Overall: 1,08
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Go to the top of the page

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

10

Friday, March 5th 2010, 6:35pm

Still has an overall strength of 1.08. What is that .08 strength being saved for, on a freighter? She's also relatively fast for a freigher, but not fast enough for a banana boat.

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

11

Friday, March 5th 2010, 6:44pm

allright, I'll modfied fast. Is good to have speed right?

That Will be a typical Peruvian mark

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

12

Friday, March 5th 2010, 6:55pm

Quoted

Abancay Pr.001, Peruvian Cargo laid down 1936

Displacement:
15.375 t light; 15.705 t standard; 16.461 t normal; 17.067 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(440,10 ft / 433,07 ft) x 59,06 ft x (25,43 / 26,30 ft)
(134,14 m / 132,00 m) x 18,00 m x (7,75 / 8,02 m)

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 7.794 shp / 5.814 Kw = 15,00 kts
Range 8.800nm at 11,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.362 tons

Complement:
726 - 944

Cost:
£2,999 million / $11,996 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 219 tons, 1,3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.047 tons, 18,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.086 tons, 6,6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 12.110 tons, 73,6 %
- Hull below water: 6.060 tons
- Hull above water: 6.050 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
19.116 lbs / 8.671 Kg = 177,0 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 14,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,886 / 0,888
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30,00 %, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Aft deck: 25,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 20,47 ft / 6,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125,8 %
Waterplane Area: 24.355 Square feet or 2.263 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 396 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,83
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Go to the top of the page

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

13

Friday, March 5th 2010, 9:32pm

On a freighter, most of the time, speed doesn't really matter. You're not carrying priority cargo, you're carrying heavy things that need to get where they're going but not at a particular time. Going faster costs more, because you burn rapidly increasing amounts of fuel, and it costs more because you have a larger engine room and heavier engines than otherwise.

Go to the top of the page

Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

14

Friday, March 5th 2010, 9:38pm

I've been researching steamships of the late 1930s, particularly cargo-liners; and it seems a surprising number of them actually did make up to eighteen knots on their trials.

That said... "a surprising number" =/= majority. Most of the ships I've found are designed for 12-14 knots. I suspect that's also their economical cruise speed, too - not really any reason to build a freighter to exceed their economical cruise speed. (Liners and banana boats, on the other hand, are a different ball of wax.)

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

15

Friday, March 5th 2010, 10:04pm

So I sould add a lower speed? and more cargo weigth

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ALVAMA" (Mar 5th 2010, 10:04pm)

Go to the top of the page

Sachmle

Professional

Posts: 816

16

Saturday, March 6th 2010, 9:46am

Quoted

Originally posted by ALVAMA
So I sould add a lower speed? and more cargo weigth

I'd set max speed and cruise speed to 12kts and put the rest of the hull strength left over into misc weight for more cargo.

Go to the top of the page

ALVAMA

Professional

Posts: 745

17

Saturday, March 6th 2010, 10:15am

Quoted

Abancay Pr.001, Peruvian Cargo laid down 1936

Displacement:
15.511 t light; 15.847 t standard; 16.842 t normal; 17.638 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(440,10 ft / 433,07 ft) x 60,70 ft x (25,43 / 26,54 ft)
(134,14 m / 132,00 m) x 18,50 m x (7,75 / 8,09 m)

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 3.585 shp / 2.674 Kw = 12,00 kts
Range 9.500nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1.791 tons

Complement:
738 - 960

Cost:
£2,937 million / $11,747 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 101 tons, 0,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.110 tons, 18,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.332 tons, 7,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 12.300 tons, 73,0 %
- Hull below water: 6.150 tons
- Hull above water: 6.150 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
20.499 lbs / 9.298 Kg = 189,8 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
Metacentric height 3,2 ft / 1,0 m
Roll period: 14,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,882 / 0,885
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 28 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30,00 %, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Aft deck: 25,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 20,47 ft / 6,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,7 %
Waterplane Area: 24.942 Square feet or 2.317 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 401 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,94
- Longitudinal: 1,78
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, rides out heavy weather easily

Go to the top of the page

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

18

Saturday, March 6th 2010, 11:04am

A couple other things: the block coeffecient, at .882, is very high, I'd probably cut that back to .65-.68 or so. Also, I doubt you need the freeboard to be as high as it is (giving you that 2.00 seakeeping rating). I'd cut that rating back until it's between 1.00 and 1.3 or so (the lower it goes, the more cargo you can carry).

Go to the top of the page

Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

19

Saturday, March 6th 2010, 11:21am

2.00 seakeeping is actualy something that fits for a fraighter.
Its my understanding that in peacetime it is quite common for a fraighter to fish out craws of sunken warships. Due to bad wether or other things.

I hear of cargo ships taking a 15 meters high waves by in there sides, and getting out of that with a slight listing.
A wave that will capsides a cruiser is a nuicence for a fraighter.

Early XX century freighters were build to last.
It came from the fact that a weak freighter steam engine did not give it excess power of bad weather manuvers eg. taking a wave head on.

In my personal opinion seakeeping and high freeboard are the fraighters weapons for fighting a unrelenting enemy that is the sea.