Poland current projects.

Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

1

Friday, February 19th 2010, 5:50pm

PZL Bf-109GCP(G Chlodzony Powietrzem, G air cooled)

The on going 109 development sprung this aircraft.

Armament original 2x8mm and 1x20mm changed to engine decking 2x20mm each with 80 rounds.

Estimated performance.*

V-max 597 km/h at 5000m
Range 780 km
Service ceiling 11,000m
Rate of climb 18.5 m/s
Wing loading 189 kg/m²
Power/mass: 345 W/kg

*This is not a sim, as my skill with Planebuilder are still low.
Those are educated, or not so educated guess.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Marek Gutkowski" (Feb 19th 2010, 6:20pm)

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Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

2

Friday, February 19th 2010, 6:01pm

PZL Kometa(comet, Suisei

Compeered to original it has more powerful engine and no carrier hook.

Armament 2x8mm forward firing and 20mm firing thou propeller hub.
Rear firring 13mm
Up to 620 kg of bombs

Performance Estimate*
V-max 575 km/h
Range 1,100 km
Service ceiling 11,000 m
Rate of climb 15 m/s
Wing loading 179 kg/m²
Power/mass: 0.27 kW/kg

*again best guess not sim.

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Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

3

Friday, February 19th 2010, 6:06pm

I don't know that there's a lot of point in re-engining the Bf-109 with a radial, the weight savings is nice, but only the very last version of the Kinsei had comparable power to the DB-605A (let alone the later versions of the DB-605) and the additional drag isn't going to help matters. The nose-decking mounted 8mm MGs could certainly stay, but yes, you'd need to move the engine-mounted cannon out to the wings or possibly the engine decking (as with various Russian historical fighters).

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Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

4

Friday, February 19th 2010, 6:46pm

PZL P.37 Los

a modification with a 20mm rear turret and Kinsei engines.

V-max 493 km/h at 4650m
Range: 2,600 km (1,615 mi) with 1,920 kg bomb load and extra fuel tanks
Combat radius: 1,000 km
Service ceiling: 8,900 m
Rate of climb: 4.9 m/s
Wing loading: 169 kg/m²

@ Hrolf the cannon on the Bf-109 are engine decking.
This is my attempt on doing same thing to 109 that was done to the LaGG-3 resulting in La-5.
As for this particular plane usefulness there is little of that.
I have DB-605 on two airframes and Kinsei on three however all three are twin engines designs one of with is is mass production. So there is actually more demand on radials that there is for inlines in Poland

This more of export proposal for nations that prefer radials over inlines.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Marek Gutkowski" (Feb 20th 2010, 9:20pm)

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Hood

Ugly Aircraft, Inc

Posts: 8,155

5

Saturday, February 20th 2010, 4:07pm

Since the radial is 211kg lighter so we can assume the Polish 109 will be lighter (maybe not as much as 211kg lighter) and the nose shorter then it might be better for the undercarrige since it was overloaded and ground handling was tricky.

It may maneourvre slightly better but I wouldn't expect a vast improvement although wing loading will be lower.

Marek, I'd make those nacelles on the P.37 Los bigger. There is no way the Kinsei is that small.

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Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

6

Saturday, February 20th 2010, 10:26pm

Edit to the pic the engine is now 110% of the original.

Over all this planes advantage are too small too warrant it, entering Polish air service. I think its a nice idea for a better mouse trap(One-oh-nine)

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Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

7

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 1:08pm

A design for a large fast civilian airliner was issued by the PLL "Lot".

The state own airlines want a airframe too operate the vast distances over Asia. Poland want a plane to reach Kamchatka and Japan with as little as two landings.

Preliminary work called for a new more powerful engines for this new aircraft.

Requirements:
Pressurized passenger compartment.
Cruise speed of 500km/h
Range 5000nm

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Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

8

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 3:50pm

Range seems really excessive and unnecessary. I think the competition via the Great Circle route from German, French, British and Russian airlines would pretty much lock a secondary carrier out of the Europe-to-Japan market - not like many Poles bother going to Japan to start with.

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Rooijen10

Mr. Valentines Day

Posts: 9,644

9

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 4:17pm

Japan will make sure there will be plenty of posters in Poland promoting Japan as a proper holiday destination. Naturally they will also be promoting Poland in Japan.

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Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

10

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 4:19pm

The main goal of this aircraft is Russian eastern seaboard, and china.
Now the journey is via the trans Siberian railroad.
Cutting a week form that will boost commerce.
With no political issues between WW Russia and Poland trade is 10 times as high as historically.

Quoted

not like many Poles bother going to Japan to start with.

Yes they don't but Vladivostok, Seoul, Beijing, Ulan Bator and Hanoi they did and do.

This plane is for Wesworld Poland what Concorde was for french. This will be a status symbol, plus I want to have a Lockheed Constellation type plane without having to buy it from Hrolf.

Japan some trade is done, and there is lots of nice stuff in Japan Encyclopedia section to check out so a plane too get there fast will be nice.

As for the plane itself.
Right now my plan is to use four DB 610 power systems (two join DB-605). and a V-tail assembly with tri-cycle landing gear.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Marek Gutkowski" (Feb 22nd 2010, 4:27pm)

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Hood

Ugly Aircraft, Inc

Posts: 8,155

11

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 4:45pm

I think Lot will end up using the Nakajima L5N1 or a variant of.

Argentina might have a pressurised airliner by 1942 but not with such range or cruise speed. Britain might have such airliners by 1944/45 but not much before. The US I assume will have the DC-4/6/7 series as OTL but a few years earlier plus Lockheed's Constellation and Boeings Stratoliner. Russia in WW might have more long-range types than OTL too.

I can't see Poland pulling this off just yet until they begin building some decent types of aircraft and catch up the 3-5 years they currently lack against the bigger nations.

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Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

12

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 4:57pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
I can't see Poland pulling this off just yet until they begin building some decent types of aircraft and catch up the 3-5 years they currently lack against the bigger nations.

Well I don't think I'm that far behind.
In engine department things are looking good. With DB-605 and Kinsai. Current production is the modern bomber, and fighter that has nothing to be ashamed of.
(a side note: The more I read about the IAR 80 the better it gets.)

Yes this plane will take about 4-5 Years for entering prototype stage so I guess that late 1942 early 1943 it will be flying.

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Vukovlad

Me too !!!

Posts: 4,137

13

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 5:21pm

This thread could be of interest even if the 500Km/h cruise speed is a problem

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=5837&sid=

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Rooijen10

Mr. Valentines Day

Posts: 9,644

14

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 5:47pm

Just playing a bit with the L5N1...
The top one I made using a small picture of a few Ju-52s of LOT in the 30s (not sure how accurate that was but I could not find anything else useful). Bottom one is the more modern LOT colors.

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Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

15

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 6:06pm

The bottom one will be paint scheme that I will be using.
And no the point of my project it is to be home made.

Came too think of it this plane is a sign of my megalomania showing...

I'll better adjust my medication

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Rooijen10

Mr. Valentines Day

Posts: 9,644

16

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 6:28pm

Quoted

The bottom one will be paint scheme that I will be using.

So you're taking the same route as me and use the modern look of the airlines.

Quoted

And no the point of my project it is to be home made.

Well, it was just me playing around with the L5N1.

Quoted

Came too think of it this plane is a sign of my megalomania showing...

Don't worry, it has always been there, plainly for us to see.

Quoted

I'll better adjust my medication

*gives Marek megalomania pills*

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Feb 22nd 2010, 6:28pm)

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Marek Gutkowski

Professional

Posts: 1,280

17

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 6:39pm

hehe

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Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

18

Monday, February 22nd 2010, 6:49pm

Savoia-Marchetti SM.75 GA? 5000nm range, 300km/h cruising speed, no passengers, no pressurisation, but simple, reliable and available now at all good retail outlets.