WesWorld

who got Greece now? Last SIM report was Q1 1937.

Navarchos was supposed to take over for Alt_naval.

it just Greece had a very interesting naval program going on and would be a shame to see it change abruptly.

Navarchos expressed interest and no-one objected, but hasn't designed any ships, written any reports, or any news. That was early November. I'd kinda like to fill the spot with a new player, which is why I invited Navarchos. Same time, Greece is a significantly large power to be bounced around between serial players (a la Yugoslavia) so I'd also like a dependable player.

If it comes down to it and Greece is still NPC at the end of February, I'll put together some sim reports to keep Greece caught up - but being the player of an entirely self-interested neighbor, I am not interested in running it permanently.

The above is, of course, just my humble opinion.

That was my same intent. Just be a caretaker for the reports, like I did on the Philippines, but have no desire to run the country.

And I agree with Brock. Greece is a significant player in the Med politics and a dependable player is needed.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
That was my same intent. Just be a caretaker for the reports, like I did on the Philippines, but have no desire to run the country.

If we need to caretake it, might I suggest we have 2-3 people do it mutually, at least until we can find a new player? Say perdedor, myself, and Hood? (Great Britain's got a stake in Greece because of their alliance.)

The arrangement suggested should work. By reading the greek encyclopedia Alt_naval pretty much got the projected program in place to run at least till 1938; with reconstuction of destroyers, cruisers and conversions to carriers being his main concern.

Looking back over the last Greek sim report, neither of the battleships will launch on schedule. They're scheduled for July 1937 launch, but in Q1/37 they're only 4% done. Impossible to add enough tonnage to launch them by Q3/37.

I'm going to amuse myself by making a spreadsheet of what's needing to be done with Greece. At the very least, should help a Greek player get a handle on what's what.

Entering in the numbers from the last Greek report, it appears the Greeks overspent by at least a few hundred tons. I'm checking over the numbers again, but it appears to be as much as 1,144 tons.

Can someone run all the "spent" items through a calculator and double-check my maths?

Edit: checked over the numbers again and I found a few entry mistakes I made - but that still leaves 1,031 tons over budget.

I got 1118. It seems the point is that WW Greece follows RL Greece in regard to their finance and spent more than they got.

Aw nuts, if Perdedor got something different from me, then one of us must still have something wrong.

I put a spreadsheet on Google-docs which has all my numbers on it (Sheet Gr37). Basically, what the Q1/37 report says Greece has spent, and what they had to start with.

The second sheet on that spreadsheet (Sheet Gr37-2) is my "suggestions" for the completion of all warships laid down to date. (My suggestions in gold text). To fix the over-spending problem I reduced tonnage for the Makedonia rebuild (fix in blue text) from 3,000 tons to 1,900 tons.

Impressive work. Basically Greece is a good move for a dependable player. They will have enough tonnage by the end of 1937 to start new projects.

Its an interesting country but has anyone tried to get in touch with Navarchos?



perdedor99 you menioned an alliance with the UK, is that an gentlemens agreement as nothing is posted in treaties?

That treaty is prior to me joining the SIM but I think is a full fledge treaty, I guess they never when around to enter the text but IIRC the British are filling to help the Greeks in case of War.

I think the treaty was set up between Greece and Britain in 1929, and was detailed in the news reports. Namely - no text, but the salient points are covered.

The Greek treaty is one reason Britain doesn't maintain a very large Mediterranean Fleet, IIRC.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Impressive work. Basically Greece is a good move for a dependable player. They will have enough tonnage by the end of 1937 to start new projects.

Thanks.

Figure 11,000 tons for use by the end of 1937; 46,000 tons by the end of 1938. I'd like to note that it appears many of the encyclopedia entries with regard to dates are rather inaccurate: for instance, it says the carrier Promethios will be converted in October 1937 to August 1939, but per the Q1/37 report, Promethios was 39% completed; Thermopylae is supposed to refit 01/Nov/36 to 11/Aug/38 but is completed in Q1/37... same with many of the destroyers.

Me and alt naval never got around to writing a text for the 1929 Treaty and he was always pretty lax about stuff like that. I wanted to define what it was and what it meant but I guess it was a co-operation/protection in time of war type Treaty. Probably a counter-balance to Italy and AEGIS in the Western Med.

Maybe Wes or Hoo or some of the other 'old timers' from way back can remember more.

I'm willing to look over Greece's political stuff, maybe build up a decent air force (I don't think alt ever got that far), I reckon peredor could do some good OOBs for the Greek Army too. Then we'd have Greece in a damn fine shape for a new player to pick up the threads easily.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Me and alt naval never got around to writing a text for the 1929 Treaty and he was always pretty lax about stuff like that. I wanted to define what it was and what it meant but I guess it was a co-operation/protection in time of war type Treaty. Probably a counter-balance to Italy and AEGIS in the Western Med.

Maybe Wes or Hoo or some of the other 'old timers' from way back can remember more.

I'm willing to look over Greece's political stuff, maybe build up a decent air force (I don't think alt ever got that far), I reckon peredor could do some good OOBs for the Greek Army too. Then we'd have Greece in a damn fine shape for a new player to pick up the threads easily.

Bulgaria would be keenly interested to see the Greek airforce. Bulgaria's never seen it yet!

Perhaps Greece could buy that Boulton-Paul P.94 we cooked up a few months ago? I'd also expect Hurricanes and Fairey Battles... maybe some Blenheims, and Swordfish and Gladiators for the Greek carriers?

By reading Alt_naval news he seems to be in kinda a cold war with both Turkey and the AANM.

I can see them increasing the size of their army as a response to the Turkish Army to something at least similar in size to their neighbors to the east. In tanks my opinion will be that they probably purchase British equipment after the Anglo-Greek agreement.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
By reading Alt_naval news he seems to be in kinda a cold war with both Turkey and the AANM.

I think I saw a quote in an archive-dive: "Greece is paranoid and suspicious of everybody."

Bulgaria and Turkey have both repeatedly tried to make nice with the Greeks, offering them nonaggression treaties, trade deals, offers to drop all irredentist claims, etc. Greece pretty much told us "Talk to the hand, foos!"

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
I can see them increasing the size of their army as a response to the Turkish Army to something at least similar in size to their neighbors to the east. In tanks my opinion will be that they probably purchase British equipment after the Anglo-Greek agreement.

Probably will be smaller than the Turkish Army, and larger than the Bulgarian Army: OTL Greece fielded sixteen infantry divisions and two cavalry divisions during the Greco-Italian War. The Greek occupation of Macedonia and Anatolia would probably boost their overall population, but it's probably not going to exceed ten or twelve million people. (I think OTL Greece had seven million citizens.)

I'll have an Greek AF OOB and equipment (and naval air) by the weekend.

Don't want all British types, I could see some German types Do-17s etc, maybe Bf-109. I'll try and keep things roughly OTL but with some limited expansion.


As for British equipment for the Army;

Light Tank Mk II, III, IV and V; the main British light tank and exported, would be useful in hilly terrain, MG armed but good for recon. Perhaps better than armoured cars. Maybe German could throw in some newer Panzer II models to upgrade the lighter forces?

Cruiser Tank Mk I and I CS (A9) and Cruiser Tank Mk II and II CS (A10); as the main British tank of the mid 1930s these would give a decent fast tank with a good AT gun. Not world beaters but good.

Maybe a batch of new Cruiser Tank Mk V Crusader (A15) for 1939?

Bren gun carriers easy to buy, armoured cars from a variety of sources perhaps? Some older Morris types, maybe Great War models from France, could have some newer Damiler 'Dingo' types for scouting.

For artillery I'd see a mainly French Great War set-up with 75mm and 155mm, Skoda guns from Czechoslovakia (esp moutain guns), with some newer 25pdr guns from the UK. 3.7in AA or German 88mm and the usual 40mm Bofors or German 37mm light flak should be ok for Greece. Anti-tank guns could be the 2pdr from the UK to match the tanks. Would be pretty effective for now, 6pdrs to follow from mid 1939. As for small arms and MGs I'll let Brock decide as he seems the expert in this area.