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Major new projects for 1939 will be reconstructing Imperitritsa Ekaterina Velikaya, and Poltava, refitting more Rosa class corvettes, refitting Tashkent class destroyers built in 1922, and building a class of modified Besshumniy class coastal submarines.

Modifications to Imperitritsa Ekaterina Velikaya are: conversion to oil firing, new turbines, a reshaped bow, bulges, replacement of 305mm/52 triple turrets with twin 381mm/45 turrets, removal of end belts, a new antiaircraft suite, increased deck armor, a comprehensive electronics fit, and refurbishment of systems and fittings for service life extension.

Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya, Russian Battleship laid down 1911 (Engine 1939)

Displacement:
23,691 t light; 25,259 t standard; 26,942 t normal; 28,288 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
554.53 ft / 544.62 ft x 98.43 ft (Bulges 108.92 ft) x 27.89 ft (normal load)
169.02 m / 166.00 m x 30.00 m (Bulges 33.20 m) x 8.50 m

Armament:
8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
18 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 79.37lbs / 36.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
18 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
18 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (6x3 guns), 37.48lbs / 17.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
8 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1940 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,027 lbs / 8,177 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 7.99" / 203 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.57" / 40 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 28.22 ft / 8.60 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 7.99" / 203 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 5.98" / 152 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 5.12" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 12.01" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 48,784 shp / 36,393 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 7,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,030 tons

Complement:
1,050 - 1,366

Cost:
£2.621 million / $10.484 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,913 tons, 7.1 %
Armour: 10,157 tons, 37.7 %
- Belts: 3,315 tons, 12.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 539 tons, 2.0 %
- Armament: 2,460 tons, 9.1 %
- Armour Deck: 3,609 tons, 13.4 %
- Conning Tower: 232 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,320 tons, 4.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,232 tons, 38.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,250 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34,557 lbs / 15,675 Kg = 20.5 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 18.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.23 ft / 8.30 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Stern: 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Average freeboard: 18.18 ft / 5.54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.2 %
Waterplane Area: 38,119 Square feet or 3,541 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 952 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.85
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Semiautomatic twin 100mm DP mounts simmed as triples

Surface search radar
Air search radar
Main battery fire control radar
Antiaircraft battery fire control radar

=====================================

Modifications to Poltava are: conversion to oil firing, new turbines, a reshaped bow, bulges, replacement of 305mm/52 triple turrets with twin 356mm/52 turrets carrying refurbished guns from battlecruiser Navarin, removal of end belts, a new antiaircraft suite, increased deck armor, a comprehensive electronics fit, and refurbishment of systems and fittings for service life extension.

Poltava, Russian Battleship laid down 1910 (Engine 1939)

Displacement:
23,191 t light; 24,591 t standard; 26,479 t normal; 27,989 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
605.40 ft / 594.65 ft x 80.38 ft (Bulges 90.22 ft) x 26.57 ft (normal load)
184.53 m / 181.25 m x 24.50 m (Bulges 27.50 m) x 8.10 m

Armament:
8 - 14.02" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,653.47lbs / 750.00kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 79.37lbs / 36.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
18 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (6x3 guns), 37.48lbs / 17.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
8 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1910 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 15,223 lbs / 6,905 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 7.99" / 203 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.57" / 40 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 7.99" / 203 mm 7.99" / 203 mm
2nd: 5.98" / 152 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 88,129 shp / 65,744 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 8,600nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,397 tons

Complement:
1,037 - 1,349

Cost:
£2.477 million / $9.910 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,586 tons, 6.0 %
Armour: 9,657 tons, 36.5 %
- Belts: 3,552 tons, 13.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 602 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 2,110 tons, 8.0 %
- Armour Deck: 3,200 tons, 12.1 %
- Conning Tower: 191 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,384 tons, 9.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,486 tons, 35.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,288 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 78 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,600 lbs / 15,240 Kg = 24.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.59 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.47 ft / 6.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.4 %
Waterplane Area: 36,616 Square feet or 3,402 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Semiautomatic twin 100mm DP mounts simmed as triples

Surface search radar
Air search radar
Main battery fire control radar
Antiaircraft battery fire control radar


=======================================

Besshumniy II class, Russian Coastal Submarine laid down 1939

Displacement:
399 t light; 409 t standard; 459 t normal; 500 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
142.51 ft / 142.39 ft x 20.34 ft x 11.81 ft (normal load)
43.44 m / 43.40 m x 6.20 m x 3.60 m

Armament:
1 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1939 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1939 Model
Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
on side
1 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1939 Model
Machine gun in deck mount
on side
Weight of broadside 7 lbs / 3 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 54
6 - 20.9" / 530 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 1 shaft, 2,367 shp / 1,766 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 91 tons

Complement:
24 - 32

Cost:
£0.138 million / $0.552 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 64 tons, 13.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 226 tons, 49.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 60 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 108 tons, 23.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8 lbs / 4 Kg = 1.5 x 2.2 " / 57 mm shells or 0.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 12.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 2 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.470
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.93 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.33 ft / 0.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 0.33 ft / 0.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 0.33 ft / 0.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.33 ft / 0.10 m
- Stern: 0.33 ft / 0.10 m
- Average freeboard: 0.33 ft / 0.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 539.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 2.3 %
Waterplane Area: 1,796 Square feet or 167 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 189 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 2.99
- Longitudinal: 3.05
- Overall: 3.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

76.5 tons ballast
8 tons sonar
23.5 tons torpedo reloads (10 fwd, 4 aft)

2,150nm @ 15 kts
6,700nm @ 10 kts
11,600nm @ 8 kts

I'm not sure reconstruction of the older battleships is particularly useful. They're basically useless but are going to cost as much as a modern battleship to operate.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
I'm not sure reconstruction of the older battleships is particularly useful. They're basically useless but are going to cost as much as a modern battleship to operate.

I think You underestimating the old steel.

It is a useful ship, it will still be a treat too any BB in WW, a super cruiser like the ones that are appearing, will be force to avoid those ships.
On the other hand it is old and Poltava tie up a type 3 drydock that maybe used for a cruiser.Ekaterina is shorter and will only nead a type 2 but it is still a problem.

Old BB's owner have 3 choice's.
Sell, scrap or modernize.
It appears AdmKuznetsov thinks this ship has a part too play.

I think it's more a case of our rules not really reflecting reality. Ships like this are so old and worn out to be completely useless. It's really only for second line duties (like simply being in a place) that they have any use whatsoever, and again, operating costs are going to be similar to a modern battleship. They are simply unaffordable except to tie up somewhere and use as a possible reserve if the need is really really dire.

Quoted

Originally posted by Marek Gutkowski
Old BB's owner have 3 choice's.
Sell, scrap or modernize.

Or Museum-ize! Germany and India have both sent battleships to museum service.

It's still a few years down the road, but I've discussed with TheCanadian putting together a "Black Sea Central Powers Naval Museum" consortium, with Bulgaria's Varna, Turkey's Yavuz, and Romania's Amiral Murgescu all turned to museum ships in their respective countries.

that second-class battleships operating on the Black Sea/Med Sea will have their uses, while Russia's main naval power concentration at Murmansk steams the World ocean.

And it's not like the D3 and D2 at Sevastopol are particularly busy.

And obviously, their longevity is indicated by the fact that several of the Ganguts stayed in service until the 1950s.

Thats true, as well both ships are faster than any battleships currently in the Black Sea, and they match or outgun their main armament.

Yavuz, historically served without a refit until the 70's!

You know, I'm thinking about getting something for the Baltic. That way, we can put up a sign that says:
[SIZE=3]Russia and her client states: battleships in 5 of the 7 seas[/SIZE]

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
You know, I'm thinking about getting something for the Baltic. That way, we can put up a sign that says:
[SIZE=3]Russia and her client states: battleships in 5 of the 7 seas[/SIZE]

Which seas do you count as the Seven?

Baltic, Medirattean, Black, Arctic Ocean, Pacific Ocean...obviously this is biased.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Yavuz, historically served without a refit until the 70's!

'served' in the very loose sense. I seem to recall reading that by the time of Missouri's visit to Turkey between WW2 and Korea, Yavuz was basically unable to move on her own power. I'd expect a nation with better ship-servicing and dockyard capacity to maintain an older ship better than Yavuz or Sao Paolo if they chose to, but there's still definately a limit to keeping a ship as an effective combatant.

However, it's also worth noting that the Russian ships are getting a substantially more thorough modernization than most ships in WW (75%, rather than 50%).

I'm not cutting them in half, or reworking the stern, or changing barbettes.

The main battery changes are replacing the triple 305mm with twins, using the same ~9m barbettes.

I doubt the 15'' guns could fit in a 12'' barbette. I use 2'' increments as a upper limit, that is, a triple 12'' could fit in a twin 14''.

It would probably fit, consider the planned (but interrupted) conversion of Gneisenau from 11.1" to 15" guns.

aren't much different from the Queen Elizabeth class, and actually bigger than Curious/Spurious/Outrageous.

On the Besshumniy II class, the one concern I have is the use of a single shaft. That's going to limit the vessels's low-speed manueverability, since the rudder(s) need water flow to be effective. You'd be better off with twin shafts which allow differential steering.