WesWorld

Based on my previous 6000 t CL. If 2 quads doesn't work then I'll want 3 DP twins. The speed is also boosted to acceptable levels.

The Italain Alberto da Giussano is badly lacking in anti-surface capabilities. This design deleted 4 100mm guns in exchange for 6 150mms DPs in twins. I consider this a very good tradeoff and hence this design can be a possible replacement/supplement for the Alberto da Giussano in the future.

Siam also badly needs some modern cruisers, and it'll be to the country's interest if she can partner with another foreign country like Italy regarding this requirement.

The weapons used here are again, proposed weapons to be indegenously built in Siam with foreign assistance.


Bangkok, Siam Light Cruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
5,618 t light; 6,000 t standard; 6,974 t normal; 7,754 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(543.37 ft / 524.93 ft) x 52.49 ft x (19.69 / 21.18 ft)
(165.62 m / 160.00 m) x 16.00 m x (6.00 / 6.46 m)

Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm 60.0 cal guns - 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck aft
12 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1938 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 2.17" / 55.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 5.51lbs / 2.50kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 75.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
6 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,131 lbs / 513 kg
Main Torpedoes
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m torpedoes - 2.402 t each, 19.214 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 344.49 ft / 105.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 59,735 shp / 44,562 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 9,350nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,754 tons

Complement:
381 - 496

Cost:
£3.230 million / $12.921 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 398 tons, 5.7%
- Guns: 374 tons, 5.4%
- Weapons: 24 tons, 0.3%
Armour: 1,174 tons, 16.8%
- Belts: 342 tons, 4.9%
- Armament: 193 tons, 2.8%
- Armour Deck: 608 tons, 8.7%
- Conning Towers: 31 tons, 0.4%
Machinery: 1,636 tons, 23.5%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,311 tons, 33.1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,356 tons, 19.4%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.4%
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,719 lbs / 3,501 Kg = 75.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.465
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.31 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00%, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 35.00%, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 18.08 ft / 5.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.7%
Waterplane Area: 18,258 Square feet or 1,696 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.85
- Longitudinal: 1.49
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room


-on a side note, I'll post a 10000 t design soon

Quoted

The Italain Alberto da Giussano is badly lacking in anti-surface capabilities.

Well, yes, but there's a large AA battery that fits. You're going to have problems fitting 12x100mm alongside 6x152mm.

Italy has some new cruiser/destroyers also fitted with 6x152 DP which are detailed in page 2 of this thread. Removing some of the systems will make her a bit lighter and cheaper for Siam.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Well, yes, but there's a large AA battery that fits. You're going to have problems fitting 12x100mm alongside 6x152mm.

Hmmm... but it seems to me that I'm still able to do fit them all. A bit pushing it but I don't think why not.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Italy has some new cruiser/destroyers also fitted with 6x152 DP which are detailed in page 2 of this thread. Removing some of the systems will make her a bit lighter and cheaper for Siam.

True, the best thing for Siam currently might be just buying those ships off the shelf.

btw, your Cacciotorpidiniere Pesante has torpedoes of zero length.


Anyways, I'll still post a big brother to this design, scaled up to 10000 t.



Bangkok, Siam Light Cruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
9,424 t light; 10,000 t standard; 11,624 t normal; 12,923 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(674.10 ft / 656.17 ft) x 65.62 ft x (21.00 / 22.59 ft)
(205.47 m / 200.00 m) x 20.00 m x (6.40 / 6.89 m)

Armament:
10 - 5.91" / 150 mm 60.0 cal guns - 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1938 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
20 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1938 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
20 - 2.17" / 55.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 5.51lbs / 2.50kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
20 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 75.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,885 lbs / 855 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.92" / 125 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 10.50 ft / 3.20 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 76,157 shp / 56,813 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 11,590nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,923 tons

Complement:
559 - 727

Cost:
£4.890 million / $19.561 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 623 tons, 5.4%
- Guns: 623 tons, 5.4%
Armour: 2,242 tons, 19.3%
- Belts: 903 tons, 7.8%
- Armament: 447 tons, 3.8%
- Armour Deck: 804 tons, 6.9%
- Conning Towers: 87 tons, 0.7%
Machinery: 2,085 tons, 17.9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,374 tons, 37.6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,199 tons, 18.9%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9%
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,631 lbs / 7,997 Kg = 171.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.450 / 0.465
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 28.22 ft / 8.60 m, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00%, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Aft deck: 30.00%, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00%, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m, 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Average freeboard: 19.97 ft / 6.09 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 185.0%
Waterplane Area: 28,529 Square feet or 2,650 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 527 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Hmmm... but it seems to me that I'm still able to do fit them all. A bit pushing it but I don't think why not.

SS allows basically anything. If you actually draw things out you get a much better notion of how cramped the ship is.

Quoted

btw, your Cacciotorpidiniere Pesante has torpedoes of zero length.

SS doesn't really do torpedoes. I've allocated 24t in the misc weight section, which is a reasonable figure (well much more so than SS) for 8x600mm.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral

SS allows basically anything. If you actually draw things out you get a much better notion of how cramped the ship is.

Sorry, don't really have the time/expertise to produce a drawing like snap. However, I still think that it's possible to fit that much weaponry without being too cramp after trying to visually fit them on using your drawings.

Look over some historical cruisers of this size. The British Arethusa-class CLs are fairly close in size (being a bit shorter), and had 6x6"; but their secondaries were 4x4", not 12x4". Using 4x100mm I can definitely see; 6x100mm, yes. 12x100mm DP is stretching it, IMHO.

Siam is closer to the Dutch and, in particular, the Danish. The Italians are in the same alliance system but I am not aware of any special relationship.

Quoted

The Italians are in the same alliance system but I am not aware of any special relationship.

That might exactly be the reason why Siam would be looking at Italy.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Look over some historical cruisers of this size. The British Arethusa-class CLs are fairly close in size (being a bit shorter), and had 6x6"; but their secondaries were 4x4", not 12x4". Using 4x100mm I can definitely see; 6x100mm, yes. 12x100mm DP is stretching it, IMHO.

Hmmm... it seems that the Aurora of the Arethusa class has 8 x 4" in twins at 5270 t standard. I don't see why I can't add an extra 2 twin mounts with my 6000 t design.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
That might exactly be the reason why Siam would be looking at Italy.

I just happen to like the Italian designs better. :p

btw, perhaps I should base a CVL off the same hull as my 10000 t design.

Aurora recieved a refit that effectively doubled her orriginal 4" AA outfit.

Keep in mind, adding two more twin 100mm mounts means more crew for each gun, which leads to more crew quarters needed, more shells and less deck space. Given the ships size 4 twin mounts is plenty. Those 2.17" AA guns will also weigh alot too.

As Gavin said, a drawing will show you how cramped things are, there are some here who don't mind attempting to whip up a drawing for you, just fire away a request and see if anyone responds.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Aurora recieved a refit that effectively doubled her orriginal 4" AA outfit.

Keep in mind, adding two more twin 100mm mounts means more crew for each gun, which leads to more crew quarters needed, more shells and less deck space. Given the ships size 4 twin mounts is plenty. Those 2.17" AA guns will also weigh alot too.[/quote]

Nevertheless I still have a larger ship than the Aurora. If really needed I don't mind deleting 2 twin 55mm mounts to make space for the 100mms. I should also mention that I don't have plans for any seaplanes for this design, so that should mean more space for the guns.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
As Gavin said, a drawing will show you how cramped things are, there are some here who don't mind attempting to whip up a drawing for you, just fire away a request and see if anyone responds.

Before I do anything stupid, I should ask first: How do I actually fire away a request? I mean, I don't actually see any request for drawing section/thread anywhere.


Also, btw, why don't I see anyone comment on my 10000 t design? I don't really believe that she's 100% perfect to keep everyone silent.

You can just fire off a general request to "anyone interested", there are several players here (including myself, when I have time) who cook up fairly detailed drawings and may take up your offer.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
You can just fire off a general request to "anyone interested", there are several players here (including myself, when I have time) who cook up fairly detailed drawings and may take up your offer.

Very well, I shall head to "The Meeting Place" to fire off my request, thx for the info.

No problem at all!