WesWorld

Ok, here we go. The sea keeping seems to suck but I'm hoping that's bc SS can't really sim fast and light combatants. The weapons are all proposed weapons for Siam to produce indegeniously with foreign assistance.


Enter ship name, Siam Large Destroyer laid down 1938

Displacement:
2,817 t light; 2,983 t standard; 3,481 t normal; 3,879 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(519.28 ft / 505.25 ft) x 45.93 ft x (13.12 / 14.06 ft)
(158.28 m / 154.00 m) x 14.00 m x (4.00 / 4.29 m)

Armament:
8 - 4.92" / 125 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1938 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
6 - 2.17" / 55.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 5.51lbs / 2.50kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 75.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 481 lbs / 218 kg
Main Torpedoes
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m torpedoes - 2.402 t each, 19.214 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Main DC/AS Mortars
60 - 440.92 lbs / 200.00 kg Depth Charges + 2 reloads - 12.204 t total
in Stern depth charge racks

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 295.28 ft / 90.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 90% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,796 shp / 45,353 Kw = 36.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 896 tons

Complement:
226 - 294

Cost:
£2.128 million / $8.512 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 178 tons, 5.1%
- Guns: 138 tons, 4.0%
- Weapons: 39 tons, 1.1%
Armour: 148 tons, 4.3%
- Belts: 98 tons, 2.8%
- Armament: 36 tons, 1.0%
- Conning Towers: 15 tons, 0.4%
Machinery: 1,588 tons, 45.6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 853 tons, 24.5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 664 tons, 19.1%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.4%
- On freeboard deck: 25 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,073 lbs / 487 Kg = 18.0 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 44 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.78

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.416
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 26.57 ft / 8.10 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 20.00%, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 45.00%, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m, 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Average freeboard: 15.55 ft / 4.74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 163.8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.4%
Waterplane Area: 14,825 Square feet or 1,377 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 40 lbs/sq ft or 197 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.65
- Overall: 0.51
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

If you raise steadiness to 50%, the seakeeping will marginally improve. Not all the way to 1.00, but it'll be better.

I like it, actually. A bit heavy (and therefore expensive), but quite good overall.

Belt armor on a DD?

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
If you raise steadiness to 50%, the seakeeping will marginally improve. Not all the way to 1.00, but it'll be better.

I like it, actually. A bit heavy (and therefore expensive), but quite good overall.

Thx for the advice, here's the revised version:

Enter ship name, Siam Large Destroyer laid down 1938

Displacement:
2,817 t light; 2,983 t standard; 3,481 t normal; 3,879 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(519.74 ft / 505.25 ft) x 45.93 ft x (13.12 / 14.06 ft)
(158.42 m / 154.00 m) x 14.00 m x (4.00 / 4.29 m)

Armament:
8 - 4.92" / 125 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1938 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
6 - 2.17" / 55.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 5.51lbs / 2.50kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
3 raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 75.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 481 lbs / 218 kg
Main Torpedoes
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m torpedoes - 2.402 t each, 19.214 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
Main DC/AS Mortars
60 - 440.92 lbs / 200.00 kg Depth Charges + 2 reloads - 12.204 t total
in Stern depth charge racks

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,796 shp / 45,353 Kw = 36.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 896 tons

Complement:
226 - 294

Cost:
£2.137 million / $8.549 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 178 tons, 5.1%
- Guns: 138 tons, 4.0%
- Weapons: 39 tons, 1.1%
Armour: 50 tons, 1.4%
- Armament: 36 tons, 1.0%
- Conning Towers: 15 tons, 0.4%
Machinery: 1,600 tons, 46.0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 939 tons, 27.0%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 664 tons, 19.1%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.4%
- On freeboard deck: 25 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,149 lbs / 521 Kg = 19.3 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.416
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 27.56 ft / 8.40 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 20.00%, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 45.00%, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.01 ft / 5.18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.6%
Waterplane Area: 14,825 Square feet or 1,377 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 42 lbs/sq ft or 203 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.87
- Overall: 0.53
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room


A small question I'd like to ask though: is it a waste of weight to add the 25mm belt armor?

Quoted

Originally posted by Sachmle
Belt armor on a DD?

question answered, and hence design revised again.

Well, the ship is at the edge to a light cruiser. She´s expensive. Her best feature is her speed, making sure she can evade superior forces.

So splinter protection to her engines might not be too bad an idea...

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Well, the ship is at the edge to a light cruiser. She´s expensive. Her best feature is her speed, making sure she can evade superior forces.

So splinter protection to her engines might not be too bad an idea...

It'll be great for Siam to partner with some foreign countries regarding this design to reduce the costs.

btw, I can sure add the belt armor back, but then her sea keeping will suck... stupid tradeoff problems.

Quoted

Originally posted by gaiasabre11

btw, I can sure add the belt armor back, but then her sea keeping will suck... stupid tradeoff problems.

This is a story of life my friend.
I always go for better sea keeping.

Quoted

Originally posted by Marek Gutkowski

This is a story of life my friend.
I always go for better sea keeping.

I can also boost the speed to 37 knots, but than she'll be underarmed for her size...

I think I've already got a balanced design here.

A slightly revised version after I found out I have some error with the torpedo arrangement. Added an additional twin 55mm mount and changed all 25mm mounts to singles.

Enter ship name, Siam Large Destroyer laid down 1938

Displacement:
2,829 t light; 3,000 t standard; 3,481 t normal; 3,865 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(519.74 ft / 505.25 ft) x 45.93 ft x (13.12 / 14.03 ft)
(158.42 m / 154.00 m) x 14.00 m x (4.00 / 4.28 m)

Armament:
8 - 4.92" / 125 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 250 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1938 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
8 - 2.17" / 55.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 5.51lbs / 2.50kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 75.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1938 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 489 lbs / 222 kg
Main Torpedoes
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m torpedoes - 2.402 t each, 19.214 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes
Main DC/AS Mortars
50 - 440.92 lbs / 200.00 kg Depth Charges + 50 reloads - 19.684 t total
in Stern depth charge racks

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning towers: Forward 1.97" / 50 mm, Aft 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,796 shp / 45,353 Kw = 36.00 kts
Range 3,855nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 865 tons

Complement:
226 - 294

Cost:
£2.141 million / $8.565 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 203 tons, 5.8%
- Guns: 140 tons, 4.0%
- Weapons: 63 tons, 1.8%
Armour: 52 tons, 1.5%
- Armament: 37 tons, 1.1%
- Conning Towers: 15 tons, 0.4%
Machinery: 1,599 tons, 45.9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 937 tons, 26.9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 652 tons, 18.7%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.4%
- On freeboard deck: 25 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,144 lbs / 519 Kg = 19.2 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.415
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00%, 27.56 ft / 8.40 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 20.00%, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m, 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 45.00%, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.01 ft / 5.18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 165.1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.0%
Waterplane Area: 14,825 Square feet or 1,377 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 203 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 0.87
- Overall: 0.53
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

I take issue with the term "Large Destroyer". That thing's fifty feet longer than a Capitani Romani-class!

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
I take issue with the term "Large Destroyer". That thing's fifty feet longer than a Capitani Romani-class!

I classify ships according to standard weight. A Deutschland class cruiser is still a cruiser even though she's longer than the Pennsylvania class battleship.

Interesting ship.

Basically the same weapons fit as my Z82 class, 2kts faster on 500t more. Seakeeping might be good down at 34kts, but I bet the range @15kts is lower. 8500@15 and good seaboats at speed were design requirements for me.

However it suggest if I expand the Z82s a tad, I can pick up a knot or two, which would let them work as DDLs as well.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
Interesting ship.

Basically the same weapons fit as my Z82 class, 2kts faster on 500t more. Seakeeping might be good down at 34kts, but I bet the range @15kts is lower. 8500@15 and good seaboats at speed were design requirements for me.

However it suggest if I expand the Z82s a tad, I can pick up a knot or two, which would let them work as DDLs as well.

Currently she can get like 7000 @ 15 and sea boat quality of 1.04. Good enough for me already.

Where would you put 4 twin 55mm mounts, all on the centerline, on this vessel? I can see 1 mounted in Q position, at the forward end of the aft superstructure, maybe 1 each on bandstands aft of the two stacks (above the torpedo banks), but where's the 4th one?

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Where would you put 4 twin 55mm mounts, all on the centerline, on this vessel? I can see 1 mounted in Q position, at the forward end of the aft superstructure, maybe 1 each on bandstands aft of the two stacks (above the torpedo banks), but where's the 4th one?

I actually haven't really thought about that question...

I was probably hoping that the relatively long hull of this ship can accomodate the guns where I intended them to be. If they can't be fitted that way perhaps I should move them to the sides?

A drawing would be nice, but I already fired off a request for my CL designs...

GUess it´s time to learn to draw them yourself - or at least make reasonable sketches. It´s not that difficult. :o)

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
GUess it´s time to learn to draw them yourself - or at least make reasonable sketches. It´s not that difficult. :o)

Tried it. Still find it difficult.

For now I guess the 55mms can be positioned in the same fashion as the 37mms are mounted in the Danish Archer class minus the one mounted at the stern. Although the 55mms are definitely larger and hence take up more space, I believe/hope that the much larger hull of this design can accomodate them. Or unless people have a better suggestion on how to arrange the guns?

On a side note, me kinda thinking of moving the 25mms on the deck up.

A 40mm Bofors quad weighted about 11 tons (without shield). A 55mm twin mounts might be in the same range. That has to be kept in mind.

Edit: The historical French 57mm twin mounts weighted between 16 and 23 tons - but those were enclosed mounts.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
A 40mm Bofors quad weighted about 11 tons (without shield). A 55mm twin mounts might be in the same range. That has to be kept in mind.

Edit: The historical French 57mm twin mounts weighted between 16 and 23 tons - but those were enclosed mounts.

I was just about to mention the French guns... but anyways I still believe that they can be fitted nicely with my much bigger hull as compared to the Danish Archers.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
GUess it´s time to learn to draw them yourself - or at least make reasonable sketches. It´s not that difficult. :o)

Heh, my efforts in the past have been...poor, and I certainly class it as difficult. I do better with cut and paste of ship features.

Quoted

Currently she can get like 7000 @ 15 and sea boat quality of 1.04. Good enough for me already.

Certainly for your purposes. My design parameters included escorting fleet units from Matadi, Kongo, across the Indian Ocean to Batavia, Dutch East Indies in all weather and in the face of long ranged air attacks. As such the range and the ability to provide heavy long range AA fire on a fairly stable platform was necessary