WesWorld

Problem is, the Persian Nationalists are an odious renegade group in a country most of us actively distrust and dislike anyway, which unfortunately sits smack-dab on one of the most important set of straits in the world. The dog made the mistake of trying to bite us, but everybody was already lined up waiting to kick the dog.

If India and Britain weren't taking care of it already, I think there'd be seven or eight battleship fleets heading out to chew bubblegum and kick some rear, and supply office is all out of bubblegum.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Problem is, the Persian Nationalists are an odious renegade group in a country most of us actively distrust and dislike anyway, which unfortunately sits smack-dab on one of the most important set of straits in the world. The dog made the mistake of trying to bite us, but everybody was already lined up waiting to kick the dog.

If India and Britain weren't taking care of it already, I think there'd be seven or eight battleship fleets heading out to chew bubblegum and kick some rear, and supply office is all out of bubblegum.

I would not discuss the reaction, is the expected one. Is the reaction time. In real life it would take close to three to four days just to know what happen in the Gulf, then for the League for ending discussions could take at the minimum a week and if someone drags the discussions close to a month. And for the diverse forces to actually decide what to do and organized close to another two weeks at the minimum.

My intend was to have everything resolved on the naval side before any commitment could reach the area. I didn't counted with the internet mentality taking hold. I know, is difficult to play a character when we are accostumed in our day to day lifes to get fast responses to everything.

Perdedor's issue is the speed of communication and beuracracy; News of the acts of 'Piracy' would take some days to be relayed to various governments and be confirmed. Deliberation within the government would take another few days. Then for it to come before the LoN would take more scheduling and deliberation. That's assuming a very streamlined process, as well, given 1930s technology and process.

Likewise, deployments are not instantaneous events. Preparing a ship (or troops) for transport and deployment takes some time to put together, then there is the travel time itself.

In all that, he does have a point in the LoN meeting to discuss the issue the next morning is a bit accelerated. And from what he's saying, he intends to have the issue resolved before anyone could realistically deploy anything except on-station local forces if they're responding to this incident, but that is an OOC musing that would not factor on any nation's decision making process.

I'm not realistically sure how many countries would actually care that much either. Merchant shipping in the region isn't going to be that extensive. Oil use worldwide isn't extensive, and is primarily military orientated. The fields in the middle east are almost exclusively for Commonwealth use. The rest of Europe's supply comes from Romania (and probably Libya a bit here). There's probably some British and Indian shipping in the region but unlikely to be a great deal of anything else. Why deploy naval vessels to the region to protect the couple of merchant ships a country might have there? The few Bulgarian ships deployed the region are going to be a significant drain on a small navy.

And really, why would countries like Poland, Brazil, Chile, Ireland, Atlantics, Columbia, and Rumania, even care? Australia is part of the Commonwealth and doesn't care. The attitude is one of 'let the RN deal with it'. Mexico wouldn't care either, but I felt a nay was needed, besides high oil prices are good...

Good thing I don't buy oil from Mexico, then.

Why would most country's care? Politics, SATSUMA hasn't exactly made many freinds in Europe now have they? As Brock said it would be a good time to kick the dog while he's down. A vote was put up and Atlantis/Colombia voted, nothing more. They are not sending ships so that complaint is abit alarmist IMO.

Turkey has a valid reason to want to send ships (along with Bulgaria) to help the Sauds defend against the SATSUMA nations in the region looking for an excuse to gobble up smaller nations. Now, not surprisingly, Persian Nationalists want to target neutral shiping, so it panned out as a prudent move. Those ships were sent as soon as the conflict started.

Also I'm unaware that any of those ships preposed to the League have even left port yet, I don't see that as speedy.

The timing is indeed "too soon", the end of the month may be appropriate for the LON.

In the case of the Dutch, I didn't put a date on my post intentionally, because I didn't want to nit-pick timelines. The internal decision likely only took 3-4 days because the PM is keen on "flexing ones muscles", plus it looks good to our Saudi and Yemeni friends. It takes about a week to steam over from Phuket, and I allowed for the reserve vessels to be showing up later. It could very well be that by time they get there, there is no longer an issue.

As for why we care, commerce is our life blood and we do have some trade in the region. . The straits are to wide to legitimately close, and we fully intend to see our merchants safely through.

As for a LON TF, let's wait to see what happens in the month or so before this comes up on the agenda?

Now, that I look at it in more detail, I will agree that the timing does seem a bit odd, even the UN today doesn't react that fast I think.

Now as to why Romania, Poland, and Brazil voted the way they did:

Romania has decided to vote the way she did for a variety of reasons. One, it doesn't cost them anything, two it gains them the image of being a country which would rather settle disputes through negotiation, via various diplomatic channels, three the Romanians are realistic enough to realize that when a house on the next street is on fire, its not the opportune time to take a vacation to Disneyland.

Poland is of a similar attitude in this crisis, except for the niggling fact that they did send tankettes to the Nationalists. However, they weren't sent "officially" so once this fact comes to light IC, Poland will apologize, and do an investigation into this matter.

Brazil, for much the same reasons as Romania, in that it costs them nothing, and gives the Prince Regent's government an image of supporting the League, which they hope will be noted in various quarters.

By the way, both Poland and Romania are oil producing countries, and together produce much of Europe's oil. Both countries would no doubt be profiting from the higher prices this crisis would cause, yet both are taking the moral high ground in stating that attacking international shipping is both wrong and illegal.

Edit: The Romanians aren't planning on deploying to the Gulf either unless specifically requested by the League. The proposal for a unified command in the Gulf was thought up for practical reasons, with the ships of 6 different nations operating in a relatively small area, plus the various merchants operating, there is bound to be accidents which could be prevented. Realistically, by the time something was organized, its all going to be over anyhow, so its all a moot point.

As Kirk seems to be eluding to, and it makes sence, Oil isn't the only commodity being traded in the Gulf so there will be interested party's.

Of course, as we've already seen in the story itself, the Chinese are apparently already hastening to trade the commodities of "farm equipment" on the Gulf.

Great Britain could close the entire Gulf to all shipping from Hormuz. The entire southern shore belongs to the Commonwealth and Iraq is a puppet anyway.

If the LoN feels that is the safest move...

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Great Britain could close the entire Gulf to all shipping from Hormuz. The entire southern shore belongs to the Commonwealth and Iraq is a puppet anyway.

If the LoN feels that is the safest move...

For Bharat to agree to that we will have to get assurances our oil shipments will not suffer by these actions.

Of course it will be resolved failry easy and behind the stage.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Great Britain could close the entire Gulf to all shipping from Hormuz. The entire southern shore belongs to the Commonwealth and Iraq is a puppet anyway.

Except for Saudi Arabia, you mean... and I would strongly condemn that action.

I'd rather see the British and Indians mine Bushehr harbour and lock in the Nationalist ships. The Persian Gulf is perfect for mine warfare, so I'm extremely puzzled why in the world the Nationalists are using torpedo boats rather than the plausible deniability of mines, and why the B&Is aren't using their most potent weapons.

The RAF could flatten Bushher with several squadrons of Wellingtons, Wellseleys, Henley's and Blenhiems but we don't want to have such heavy civilian casulties.

Also mines are indiscriminate killers, they kill friend and foe alike and strays might cuase havoc plus the clean up post-war. The Admiralty however are looking into the possibilty. [Plus RN subs are lurking around there too]

I forgot about Saudi Arabia but the choice is either stop merchant traffic or convoy them or steamship lines rely on their insurance.

Convoys could easily be arranged, British ships would be in covnoys by now and neutrals are welcome to join but their safety rests in the RN.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Great Britain could close the entire Gulf to all shipping from Hormuz.
....
I forgot about Saudi Arabia but the choice is either stop merchant traffic or convoy them or steamship lines rely on their insurance.

Convoys could easily be arranged, British ships would be in covnoys by now and neutrals are welcome to join but their safety rests in the RN.

From Google Earth, the narrowest portions of Hormuz are 21nm just between the islands in the strait, and then again further west between Abu Musa and Lesser Tunb, leaving plenty of room outside of recognized territorial waters. Edit : had the thought and checked Wiki, the Straits of Dover are about 21nm as well.

Had the RN offer to convoy been made previously, the Dutch move would not have been necessary, but once committed to providing escorts to protect our merchants, we are unlikely to change our decision

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
The timing is indeed "too soon", the end of the month may be appropriate for the LON.

In the case of the Dutch, I didn't put a date on my post intentionally, because I didn't want to nit-pick timelines. The internal decision likely only took 3-4 days because the PM is keen on "flexing ones muscles", plus it looks good to our Saudi and Yemeni friends. It takes about a week to steam over from Phuket, and I allowed for the reserve vessels to be showing up later. It could very well be that by time they get there, there is no longer an issue.

As for why we care, commerce is our life blood and we do have some trade in the region. . The straits are to wide to legitimately close, and we fully intend to see our merchants safely through.

As for a LON TF, let's wait to see what happens in the month or so before this comes up on the agenda?

So an arrival time of the 14th to 15th of April sounds as the estimated arrival time to the region? I will post something later on in regard to the arrival of ships in the Indian thread. Also, they be home based in Yemen or in Saudi water? There will be no Indian problem. India will not be too happy but understands the why they are there.

Whatever date is attached, I want the vote on my original proposal to be completed. Make it the end of April if you must, but I want the Council of Twenty to vote yes, no, or abstain. I want the votes on record, please.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Whatever date is attached, I want the vote on my original proposal to be completed. Make it the end of April if you must, but I want the Council of Twenty to vote yes, no, or abstain. I want the votes on record, please.

I think Shin Ra timeline is regard to that should be followed. So you agree late April or first week in May? Also who are the Council of Twenty at this time? I know we come up with them once but they maybe change by now. Not that it really matter but, yes I will post everything it has being decided.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Whatever date is attached, I want the vote on my original proposal to be completed. Make it the end of April if you must, but I want the Council of Twenty to vote yes, no, or abstain. I want the votes on record, please.

I don't believe the Dutch or Belgians are on the Council of 20, or at least I don't think we were during Bolivia.

Quoted

So an arrival time of the 14th to 15th of April sounds as the estimated arrival time to the region? I will post something later on in regard to the arrival of ships in the Indian thread. Also, they be home based in Yemen or in Saudi water? There will be no Indian problem. India will not be too happy but understands the why they are there.

I'd say 10-12 days to be "active" with a mixed DD flotilla and some old CLs. Most of the fleet units will remain at sea to 'evaluate' and to avoid ramping tensions in theater through the roof.

Initially, likely basing will be split EAS and Yemen, but as gear arrives, mostly Yemen.

About 20 days in should see the dedicated escort flotillas and two CDS arrive to take over. Round trip will be twice weekly for any interested friendly merchants, main base in Yemen, secondary Saud for escorts waiting to convoy. .

If the first several weeks go well, or there is another de-escalater, the heavy units will depart and leave the escorts and CDS.