WesWorld

New units being laid down late in 1922, or 1923. Things will get more interesting in 1924...

-Trincomalee class light cruiser
-G-135 class destroyer
-Brahmaputra class minesweeper
-S-107 class sloop (a derivative of the minesweeper)

Light Cruiser Trincomalee, laid down 1922

Length, 575 ft x Beam, 57.5 ft x Depth, 16.4 ft
6971 tons normal displacement (6229 tons standard)

Main battery: 6 x 5.9-inch (2 x 3)
Secondary battery: 3 x 5.9-inch
AA battery: 4 x 4.1-inch
Light battery: 4 x 1.4-inch

Weight of broadside: 1068 lbs

8 TT, 19.7"

Main belt, 2.0 inches; ends unarmored
Armor deck, average 1.0 inches
C.T., 2.0 inches

Battery armor:
Main, 2.0" / secondary, 2.0" shields
AA, 1.0" shields / light guns, 1.0" shields

Maximum speed for 62503 shp = 31.46 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 10500 nm / 12 kts

Typical complement: 381-496


Estimated cost, $6.752 million (£1.688 million)

Remarks:

Relative extent of belt armor, 114 percent of 'typical' coverage.

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.

Roomy upper decks; superior accommodation and working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 133 tons = 2 pct
Armor, total ..................... 802 tons = 12 pct

Belt 318 tons = 5 pct
Deck 358 tons = 5 pct
C.T. 16 tons = 0 pct
Armament 110 tons = 2 pct

Machinery ........................ 2120 tons = 30 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 2920 tons = 42 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 970 tons = 14 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 25 tons = 0 pct
-----
6971 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 3.3 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 6001 tons
Standard displacement: 6229 tons
Normal service: 6971 tons
Full load: 7537 tons

Loading submergence 553 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.27

Shellfire needed to sink: 7099 lbs = 69.1 x 5.9-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.2
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 71 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.29

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.12

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.45
Sharpness coefficient: 0.31
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 9.20
'Natural speed' for length = 24.0 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 53 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 114 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 140 percent


Displacement factor: 114 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.99
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 94 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.11
(for 17.0 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +2.9 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

575.00 x 57.50 x 16.40; 17.00 -- Dimensions
0.45 -- Block coefficient
1922 -- Year laid down
31.46 / 10500 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
25 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
6 x 5.90; 2; 0 -- Main battery; turrets; superfiring
:
3 x 5.90; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Gun-shields
:
4 x 4.10 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
4 x 1.40 -- Fourth (light) battery
8 / 0 / 19.70 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
2.00 / 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00; 114 -- Belt armor; relative extent
1.00 / 2.00 -- Deck / CT
2.00 / 2.00 / 1.00 / 1.00 -- Battery armor


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Destroyer G-135, laid down 1923

Length, 340 ft x Beam, 34.0 ft x Depth, 10.8 ft
1427 tons normal displacement (1281 tons standard)

Main battery: 4 x 4.1-inch
Secondary battery: 4 x 1.4-inch
AA battery: 4 x 0.6-inch

Weight of broadside: 144 lbs

8 TT, 19.7"

Hull unarmored
C.T., 2.0 inches

Battery armor:
Main, 2.0" shields / secondary, 1.0" shields
AA, 1.0" shields

Maximum speed for 34012 shp = 32.74 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 5500 nm / 12 kts

Typical complement: 116-151


Estimated cost, $1.937 million (£484,000)

Remarks:

Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 18 tons = 1 pct
Armor, total ..................... 18 tons = 1 pct

C.T. 5 tons = 0 pct
Armament 12 tons = 1 pct

Machinery ........................ 771 tons = 54 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 414 tons = 29 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 186 tons = 13 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 20 tons = 1 pct
-----
1427 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 1.6 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 1241 tons
Standard displacement: 1281 tons
Normal service: 1427 tons
Full load: 1538 tons

Loading submergence 179 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.33

Shellfire needed to sink: 387 lbs = 11.2 x 4.1-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.3
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 72 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.14

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.20

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.40
Sharpness coefficient: 0.30
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 9.23
'Natural speed' for length = 18.4 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 66 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 186 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 92 percent


Displacement factor: 58 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.50
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 33 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.39
(for 15.5 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +5.2 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 0.55

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

340.00 x 34.00 x 10.80; 15.50 -- Dimensions
0.40 -- Block coefficient
1923 -- Year laid down
32.74 / 5500 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
20 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
4 x 4.10; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
4 x 1.40; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Gun-shields
:
4 x 0.60 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
8 / 0 / 19.70 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 2.00 -- Deck / CT
2.00 / 1.00 / 1.00 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Minesweeper Brahmaputra, laid down 1922

Length, 160 ft x Beam, 28.0 ft x Depth, 8.5 ft
544 tons normal displacement (479 tons standard)

Main battery: 1 x 4.1-inch
Secondary battery: 2 x 1.4-inch
AA battery: 2 x 0.6-inch

Weight of broadside: 37 lbs

Main belt, 2.0 inches; ends unarmored
Armor deck, average 1.0 inches
C.T., 2.0 inches

Battery armor:
Main, 2.0" shields / secondary, 1.0" shields
AA, 1.0" shields

Maximum speed for 2499 shp = 17.86 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 4000 nm / 12 kts

Typical complement: 56-73


Estimated cost, $350,000 (£87,000)

Remarks:

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Magazines and engineering spaces are roomy, with superior
watertight subdivision.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 5 tons = 1 pct
Armor, total ..................... 116 tons = 21 pct

Belt 58 tons = 11 pct
Deck 52 tons = 10 pct
C.T. 3 tons = 1 pct
Armament 3 tons = 1 pct

Machinery ........................ 85 tons = 16 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 219 tons = 40 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 79 tons = 15 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 40 tons = 7 pct
-----
544 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.9 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 465 tons
Standard displacement: 479 tons
Normal service: 544 tons
Full load: 594 tons

Loading submergence 80 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.09

Shellfire needed to sink: 1129 lbs = 32.8 x 4.1-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.8
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 72 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.08

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.31

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.50
Sharpness coefficient: 0.40
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 5.99
'Natural speed' for length = 12.6 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 65 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 66 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 105 percent


Displacement factor: 150 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.03
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 45 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 5.01
(for 11.0 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +2.5 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.20

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

160.00 x 28.00 x 8.50; 11.00 -- Dimensions
0.50 -- Block coefficient
1922 -- Year laid down
17.86 / 4000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
40 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
1 x 4.10; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
2 x 1.40; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Gun-shields
:
2 x 0.60 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
2.00 / 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00; 100 -- Belt armor; relative extent
1.00 / 2.00 -- Deck / CT
2.00 / 1.00 / 1.00 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Sloop S-107, laid down 1923

Length, 160 ft x Beam, 28.0 ft x Depth, 8.5 ft
544 tons normal displacement (462 tons standard)

Main battery: 2 x 4.1-inch
Secondary battery: 2 x 1.4-inch
AA battery: 2 x 0.6-inch

Weight of broadside: 72 lbs

Main belt, 1.0 inches; ends unarmored
Armor deck, average 0.5 inches
C.T., 2.0 inches

Battery armor:
Main, 2.0" shields / secondary, 1.0" shields
AA, 1.0" shields

Maximum speed for 3999 shp = 19.92 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 5000 nm / 12 kts

Typical complement: 56-73


Estimated cost, $487,000 (£122,000)

Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 9 tons = 2 pct
Armor, total ..................... 63 tons = 12 pct

Belt 29 tons = 5 pct
Deck 26 tons = 5 pct
C.T. 3 tons = 1 pct
Armament 5 tons = 1 pct

Machinery ........................ 134 tons = 25 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 214 tons = 39 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 99 tons = 18 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 25 tons = 5 pct
-----
544 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 1.0 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 445 tons
Standard displacement: 462 tons
Normal service: 544 tons
Full load: 608 tons

Loading submergence 80 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.17

Shellfire needed to sink: 834 lbs = 24.2 x 4.1-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.5
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 56 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.14

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.13

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.50
Sharpness coefficient: 0.40
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 5.99
'Natural speed' for length = 12.6 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 71 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 98 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 114 percent


Displacement factor: 127 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.88
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 43 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 5.26
(for 12.0 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +3.5 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.05

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

160.00 x 28.00 x 8.50; 12.00 -- Dimensions
0.50 -- Block coefficient
1923 -- Year laid down
19.92 / 5000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
25 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
2 x 4.10; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
2 x 1.40; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Gun-shields
:
2 x 0.60 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
1.00 / 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00; 100 -- Belt armor; relative extent
0.50 / 2.00 -- Deck / CT
2.00 / 1.00 / 1.00 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Trincomalee seems to have lost some weight, ~1200t from the picture that i have. She looks nice. The speed is fairly good but the armour seems a little thin compared to opposing cruisers. The 250mm main belt of Regina Elana springs to mind. However she can easily destroy my 2 V-class destroyers that are also stationed in Africa.

G-135 seems good for its size. Speed is a little slow but the armament is ok. Arranged in single shields?

I must ask why does your sloop have armour? and only 25 tons of misc. weight?

I did a re-design of Trincomalee about two weeks ago, figuring that if I was going to build her with a bizarre gun layout, I might as well only waste 6,200 tons on her, and not 7000+. The armor is on the thin side, pretty much because that's all the hull will tolerate - and if she blunders into Regina Elena's path, another inch or two won't matter anyway.

Anyway, to me Trincomalee is like the Omaha's - not a particularly brilliant design, but a necessary step up to proper light cruisers.

Single shields for G-135. I thought the speed was okay, myself.

I reckoned 25 tons got me 100 depth charges, which seems like plenty to me. As for the armor, I've got the hull strength, so why not give protection against the light stuff your average MTB, MAS, or pirate has to throw at it?

Quoted

I reckoned 25 tons got me 100 depth charges, which seems like plenty to me. As for the armor, I've got the hull strength, so why not give protection against the light stuff your average MTB, MAS, or pirate has to throw at it?

Ah, i'm using larger depth charges at around 1/2ton or 1 ton. I have around 100t of misc. weight however. If all else fails my frigates could ram an enemy battleship and probably sink it. That gives me an idea actually...I fancy doing some tests on an old hull i have.

That protection works ok against the 0.5" machine guns on my MAS boats. However, my next design has 1x100mm gun, and 12 torpedoes or a plane. As for pirates with a cruiser, i think you may have problems.

I agree with Trincomalee being like omaha, however she isn't pig ugly.

The sloop's expected to be dealing with submarines, MTBs, and pirates. An MAS with a 100 mm gun could be a problem, but only until it takes a hit or two of its own.

A protected cruiser would be another matter altogether, of course.

I'm sure the hull strength is high enough to add more or large DCs if the need arises.

I think the main problem with assigning a mere 25 tons tom DC would be that should you get new, better, bigger and heavier DCs, you might not be able to get 100 DCs on your vessel anymore. my third class Destroyers have 30 to 40 tons of misc. load for DCs and a couple of torpedoes, my second class Destroyers have 50 tons for DCs and a few additional torpedoes, my small Submarine Chaser has 30 tons, my large submarine hunter has 100 tons and the Corvette has 80 tons (when you look at the list of my ships, you might have noticed that the only difference between the Ao Ichi and Fu Ichi is that the Ao Ichi has 100 tons misc. load and a 11 feet freeboard, while the Fu Ichi has 80 tons misc. load and a 12 feet freeboard).
The fact that you would assign x tons of miscellaneous weight does not mean you will actually use it all the time. However, if you were to stick to the 25 tons you would need to spend a few tons of warship materials to increase the miscellaneous load later since you would alter the design. Better to do it now than to have to do it later...

Walter

Maybe somebody should ask the springsharp crew to add a depth charge line...

Just did some flipping around on Warships1.com. The largest depth charge I can find reference to - apart from one fired out of torpedo tubes - is the US Mk4 and Mk7; this weighed 745 lbs (0.338 tons). Standard Brit DCs weighed between 110 and 190 kg. German weapons were up to about 250 kg.

25 t misc weight would accommodate 50 of the big US charges, with 8 tons left over for rails and throwers. Alternately, one could ship 100 of the bigger Brit charges and have 6 tons left over. That's assuming that rails and throwers aren't considered part of the hull fittigns.

A Flower-class corvette such as HMCS Sackville carried 77 depth charges (probably British), and that's on a larger hull (~900 - 1100 tons). So I reckon I've got a reasonable amount of weight set aside.

What do other folks think on this topic?

Perhaps an increase in Miscellaneous load is not needed, so as long as you stick to the historical DCs, you won't have too much problems. However, should you decide to take Red Admiral's approach and put 1/2 and 1 ton DCs on your vessel, then you won't have many of them aboard.
I myself will probably stick to historical DCs on my Destroyers and use heavier ones on the Ao and Fu classes. Not sure yet. Main reason being that I need part of the miscellaneous weight of the DDs for torpedoes.

Walter

I´m with the Doc on this one.... For Spring* I do my calculations with 250kg/DC.

Regards,

HoOmAn