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Chinese Heavy Tank Conquest
The chinese ministry for defense published the requirements for a new heay tank:
Crew: 5 men
Range: > 100km
Armament: 50mm Canon or 75mm Canon
Armour: min 30mm
Speed: ~ 40 km/h
The Chinese designs are already known to the ministry.
Prototypes:
China needs as soon as possible a minimum of 5 prototypes of each design
Serial production:
China will buy the production license so that the needed quantity could be built in China.
This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "parador" (Jul 14th 2009, 2:39pm)
How many tanks is China looking to acquire, and is China looking to acquire a production license or to buy this purchase entirely abroad?
Does China use heavy tanks as infantry tanks or as more general heavier versions of existing medium types? You said the 1936 SATSUMA exercises showed "a great need for heavy tanks" and "The equipment of the armored divisions with medium tanks appeared to be insufficient" but that still doesn't indicate what role China's seeking.
For a heavy infantry tank, the current Chinese Legionnaires are probably up to do the job, and it keeps the Chinese heavy tanks in step with each other.
True, given that China already has some Legionaires, more wouldn't be a bad idea unless there's some difficulty with them. Since the Legionaires currently carry a 75mm/26, there wouldn't be any problem replacing that with a 50mm gun for anti-tank work, if the 75mm is felt insufficient for that task.
There is no problems with the Legionaires.
The tank is foreseen, together with the medium tanks (Legionaire), as a standard model for the chinese tank divisions.
He has to be equipped with a armor breaking canon, to eliminate the enemy tanks. Furthermore, he is also be equipped
with a sufficient number of machine guns to fight successfully against soft targets.
Then you're not looking for a heavy infantry tank; you're looking for a heavier cruiser tank, if I understand you correctly?
I'm fairly confident you can upgrade the Legionnaire with, say, a 75mm/L42 gun, improve the armor a bit, and upsize the engine to get what you want.
The Chinese designs are already known to the ministry.
May be, the Legionaire II is one of them
But China wants to see what's available on the market
Hmmmm. Germany really doesn't have anything that fits these parameters: the Panzer III is armed with a 50mm/60, and the Panzer IV is armed with the 75mm/24, and there's no longer barreled 75mm available at the moment.
The US has a similar issue, nothing that really fits these parameters at the moment. The M-4 has a 76.2mm/30, and it's the heaviest tank available at the moment.
Theoretically, a 75mm gun of 40-45 calibers should be more than enough for antitank work for the 1937-1940 era. That'll still make a tank competitive with mid-WWII era tanks.
Originally posted by Brockpaine
I'm fairly confident you can upgrade the Legionnaire with, say, a 75mm/L42 gun, improve the armor a bit, and upsize the engine to get what you want.
There was another thread with a great deal of rancor. I am firmly of the opinion that given the Legionnaire's width, it is unlikely it can be upgunned to such a weapon. Others will disagree.
For some reason I remember that thread...
Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
Originally posted by Brockpaine
I'm fairly confident you can upgrade the Legionnaire with, say, a 75mm/L42 gun, improve the armor a bit, and upsize the engine to get what you want.
There was another thread with a great deal of rancor. I am firmly of the opinion that given the Legionnaire's width, it is unlikely it can be upgunned to such a weapon. Others will disagree.
I think
this might be the discussion you're talking about?
Fiat has some designs that would fit the bill, but wouldn't be allowed to sell them to China.
The 75mm L24 or L26 should be fairly adequate for most threats in the next few years.
China has these guns ...
a) 5 cm TankCanon L/60 (could be built as a tank version of the 5cm AT-Gun)
b) 7,5cm TankCanon L/50 (used on the japanese heavy tank)
Using a similar gun to the 7.5cm/50 (a 75mm/48), the planned Panzer IVE is expected to weigh almost 25 tons, but the speed is only going to be about 21 mph or 32 km/h. Of course, in 1937, it's just paper, the gun is still being developed so it's exact weight isn't known.
Originally posted by parador
China has these guns ...
a) 5 cm TankCanon L/60 (could be built as a tank version of the 5cm AT-Gun)
b) 7,5cm TankCanon L/50 (used on the japanese heavy tank)
The 5cm gun would be an easy drop-in replacement for the 75mm/26 on the Legionaires, all you'd need besides the new gun and it's sight would be new ammo racks.
Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Using a similar gun to the 7.5cm/50 (a 75mm/4
, the planned Panzer IVE is expected to weigh almost 25 tons, but the speed is only going to be about 21 mph or 32 km/h. Of course, in 1937, it's just paper, the gun is still being developed so it's exact weight isn't known.
How did the weight end up IRL?
The weight of the 75mm/48 and the performance of the PzIVE.
The weight of the 75mm/48 (in a vehicle, as opposed to on a towed mount with a carriage) is about 700 kg. The WW Panzer IVE will end up with a speed just under 21 mph, the consequence of weight rising 25% from the original vehicle but the engine only getting an additional 10% horsepower.
I assume that it will be significantly uparmored to have a 25% weight increase
Quoted
Originally posted by Brockpaine
Thursday, May 2nd 2024, 2:38am
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