WesWorld

Please place all of your OOC comments, suggestions, questions, gripes, or thread-drifting related to the Peruvian Crisis thread here.

Nice start.

Thank you!

Don't forget that Mexico and Peru have had some issues in the past. One of the assasins that attacked the Mexican President was a member of the Peruvian intelligence service. He was captured in Lima by Mexican Special Forces in a firefight with Peruvian police. Peruvian involvement in the assasination plot has been suspected.

More! Please!

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....the respected Peruvian jurist Orlando Baylon (head of Congress) stood and silenced them with the demand "¿Por qué no te callas?"

Hahaha! A brilliant quote!

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin

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....the respected Peruvian jurist Orlando Baylon (head of Congress) stood and silenced them with the demand "¿Por qué no te callas?"

Hahaha! A brilliant quote!

Ha, yes. I happened to be browsing Wikipedia while I was writing that section and noted the phrase, and thought... "MUST write that in, somehow!"

The official Dutch position is that Peru is violating a valid treaty they freely signed less than a decade ago and should get any Peruvians back across the border.

The unofficial Dutch position is actually the same as conflict with FAR are on the "to be avoided" list, and they will whine to Iberia about it.

Considering the roll the Dutch played in the Bolivian negotiations, they will not be happy with any vote, rigged or unrigged.

They will make the appropriate noises on news of the shooting.

I was thinking of the term "It's like Apples and oranges" and thought a more extreme way to put it would be "It's like Oranges and Orangutans."
After all, for the first 5 letters Oranges and Orangutans are the same, but after that they are entirely different beasts.

This was the spot for digressions and threadjacks, right?

Kaiser, your mind is wondering... too much Belgian choccy I think!


What killed the assasain, the eight bullets or three stab wounds?

If it's an inside job who would be crazy enough to work for Diaz, go crazy with a gun and get shot eight times and stabbed three times for his trouble. Of course he won't talk now...

There's a fair case for saying Diaz is mad and invading to overthrow him, just like Argentina did with Paraguay. Hey he was a Diaz too! Is it some wicked family plot? Are all Diaz's not to be trusted?
*Goes off to shoot all Diaz's in Argentine government, armed forces, schools, universities, mayors, officals, tramps etc*

Haha! Agreed, its time to lock all Diaz's up....and Kirk for his corny jokes

As for the assassin, first rule of assassination, kill the assassin. I'd say that part of the plan was successfull!

[Referring to the Battle of Ilo…]


Nice bit of action. But I REALLY have to worry about the chance of things spreading if Chile is independently operating against Peru like this. I suppose everything depends on what Iberia does, or doesn't, do……..


One of the things I noticed, back when I first started running Peru, was that my primary naval foe Chile had a distinct lack of large, fast destroyers. That's been, to a degree, worked on since, but it does give the Peruvian fleet a small opening to at least show it's mettle. The Capitan Valdez and Independencia classes were intended, very consciously, to overmatch their Chilean opponents

Very nice piece of writing gentlemen.

The Empire is very concerned about the conflict spreading now to Chile, Peru, and Columbia's allies, Brazil being one of them. Therefore, the Imperial Forces are being readied for active service. Although Brazil is in no state for a war, she will support her allies by allowing them safe harbour and passage through her country. The Imperial General Staff, has concluded that the Imperial Navy would be the best suited of the three forces to assisting the Chilean/Columbian/Atlantean alliance should the conflict spread, therefore the Empire is preparing the 1st Cruiser Squadron composed of the Almirante Barroso (flagship), Sagitério, and Esgrimsta with the 1st Destroyer Flotilla Ocelot, Felis, Oncilla, Colocolo for service should the Empire be drawn into a shooting war.

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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
[Referring to the Battle of Ilo…]


Nice bit of action. But I REALLY have to worry about the chance of things spreading if Chile is independently operating against Peru like this. I suppose everything depends on what Iberia does, or doesn't, do…

Thanks; and yes, the initial stages are a bit ripe for precisely that problem, but it's an issue which shall be solved soon.

Unfortunately CG is a bit quiet at the moment, but he and I discussed the political issues before getting started on this. AFAICT, the Iberians are attempting to moderate Presidente Diaz's government, and the official position would be "You kicked over the anthill, now you deal with the ants." This is why Iberia was included in the Cayenne Conference, where the FAR commanders laid out their strategy: the goal is the recovery of Leticia followed by the hopeful termination of hostilities, and not the acquisition of territories or crippling reparations.

OOC and metagame, this is about the worst time for me as the Chilean player to contemplate operations against Peru. I've worked on seriously addressing the Navy, Army, and Airforce organization, but at the moment I'm committed to those building programs and haven't yet benefited much from any of them.

The Chilean operations, at the moment, are pretty much limited to sea and air forces, and it's intended to prevent Peru from massing forces to repel a Colombian attempt to retake Leticia, which is currently the main goal of the FAR powers. Though the Chilean Army is reinforcing the border, it's still in a defensive stance as the Atacama is rather hostile to ground invasions. A campaign against Peru demands control of the sea - and Chile does not have that yet.

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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
One of the things I noticed, back when I first started running Peru, was that my primary naval foe Chile had a distinct lack of large, fast destroyers. That's been, to a degree, worked on since, but it does give the Peruvian fleet a small opening to at least show it's mettle. The Capitan Valdez and Independencia classes were intended, very consciously, to overmatch their Chilean opponents

I noted that overmatch when I started running Chile. I'm pretty much a destroyer and cruiser fan, and I was greatly dismayed by the state of Chile's destroyer force, particularly compared to the Peruvian fleet. That realization has shaped in no small part my naval planning for Chile, and contributes to the reason I suggested the outcome of the Battle of Ilo. That Peruvian superiority in destroyers pays off handsomely here, as you intended. Aside from that single non-exploding hit against Independencia, the Peruvians wiped out most of a destroyer squadron without loss. The material losses aside, the Peruvians have struck a solid blow against the morale of Chilean sailors.

The Peruvian destroyer superiority is part of the rationale behind my order of eight Eyzaguirre-class DDs, the as-yet-unseen Esmeralda-class DDLs, and finally the 1939 Covadonga-class (and Battle-subclass) SCLs. The Eyzaguirres and Esmeraldas, both with 8x5.12" DP, should according to my calculus balance out the Valdez-classes, while the Covadongas/Battles, with 8x6" or 10x5.12", will balance well against the Independencias (if they can catch them, being two knots slower than those ships).

In truth, the Riquelmes should never have been sent into the war zone at all. While I understand, in principle, the theory behind their design, what happened at Ilo was pretty much inevitable the moment the Armada tried to use them in combat. Unlike most torpedo boats, they don't have the speed to outrun danger, and they aren't big enough to be survivable against anything that can catch them. I feel that a single Valdez alone could have stood a serious chance against them, if the Valdez had a commander with severe intestinal fortitude and a crack crew.

I actually had a plan to strip the Riquelmes' 6" mounts off, turn the four ships into fast coastal subchasers/minesweepers, and reuse the guns to arm the equally oddball Capitan Simpson with centerline 6" mounts. Too late for that now.

Nice little batle and a good read.

May I propose to add a link to the ships stats when you post such battles? Or some kind of appendix? Makes things easier to understand.

(Guess this was also a problem for those trying to follow the ABS war...)

In game the government in Grand Uruguay is VERY concerned about the Brazilians once more preparing to meddle into affairs that are not theirs. They just got mauled and are still looking for more? Guess the RSAN could help here. ;o)

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
Nice little batle and a good read.

May I propose to add a link to the ships stats when you post such battles? Or some kind of appendix? Makes things easier to understand.

Sure, can do!

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
In game the government in Grand Uruguay is VERY concerned about the Brazilians once more preparing to meddle into affairs that are not theirs. They just got mauled and are still looking for more? Guess the RSAN could help here. ;o)

At least regarding Leticia, I must point out that Leticia is right where the Brazilian, Peruvian, and Colombian borders intersect on the Amazon. Leticia itself, though in Colombia, virtually blends into the Brazilian city of Tabatinga. The border literally runs through the residential sections of the two cities. So Brazil has a great many reasons to "meddle" or at least rattle their saber regarding the Peruvian aggression in this region.

To borrow the allusion, the Brazilians are standing on their back porch with a loaded shotgun, watching their neighbors fighting with their toes on the property line; and they're yelling "Touch my $#!* and I'll give you two barrels of double-ought buckshot!"

In the historical Peru-Colombian War, where just this situation occurred, the Colombians were able to gain the permission of the Brazilian government to send their gunboats up the Amazon to retake Leticia. It is possible that without the Brazilian government's help, the Colombians might not have been able to retake Leticia without inflicting a major bloodbath on themselves and the Peruvian defenders.

In WW, the Colombians have the advantage of immediate Atlantean and Chilean aid - but the Chileans are far to the south, and the Amazon rainforest is just flat-out unfriendly to forcing massed Atlantean divisions through the jungle. The Colombian Army is going to spend more of its effort fighting unfriendly terrain than fighting the Peruvians - and with Brazilian aid, even if it's limited to tacit permission to send ships up the Amazon, that fight is seriously reduced in scope.

Sounds like Grand Uraguay supports Peru's actions to me and it would be most unfortunate if they and the SAE used this to start another conflict with Brazil.

In game, Colombia takes note of Grand Uraguays support for Peru and will modify future diplomatic relations with them.

Atlantis takes note of this and wonders if the SAE, as with Grand Uraguay, supports Peruvian aggression against Colombia. Atlantis was able to turn a blind eye to the SAE arming Peru to counter Chile, then not a FAR ally. Atlantis was also able to remain nuetral when the SAE came into conflict with Argentina, whom we had excellent relations with.

This latest revalation is most disturbing to say the least.

In Hoo's defense, I didn't understand his post as any sort of support for Peru - just skepticism and concern over the actions of Brazil, which is understandable considering the unstable situation Brazil currently finds herself in, and the recent end to the previous conflict.

The Chilean attache to Grand Uraguay begs to point out to the SAE/GU officials the extremely close proximity of Brazilian civilians to the conflict zone:

Hopefully this demonstrates why Brazil is concerned and, ah, 'meddling'. I'd think the SAE would be making similar noises if they were in this situation, but I understand why the Grand Uraguayans said what they did.



...and the tornado warning sirens just went off again here.

Edit: ...and get turned off again after thirty seconds. Don't know why they bothered, the storm was already passed over.

Nothing like the excitement of typing a reply durring a Tornado warning!

With reguards to SAE scepticism over Brazils action, I agree its understandable, but given Colombia's hightened sence of anger at the moment they wouldn't have the same view particularily when the conflict is far away from SAE/Grandy Uraguay territory and literally on Colombian soil.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine

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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
[Referring to the Battle of Ilo…]

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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
One of the things I noticed, back when I first started running Peru, was that my primary naval foe Chile had a distinct lack of large, fast destroyers. That's been, to a degree, worked on since, but it does give the Peruvian fleet a small opening to at least show it's mettle. The Capitan Valdez and Independencia classes were intended, very consciously, to overmatch their Chilean opponents

I noted that overmatch when I started running Chile. I'm pretty much a destroyer and cruiser fan, and I was greatly dismayed by the state of Chile's destroyer force, particularly compared to the Peruvian fleet. That realization has shaped in no small part my naval planning for Chile, and contributes to the reason I suggested the outcome of the Battle of Ilo. That Peruvian superiority in destroyers pays off handsomely here, as you intended. Aside from that single non-exploding hit against Independencia, the Peruvians wiped out most of a destroyer squadron without loss. The material losses aside, the Peruvians have struck a solid blow against the morale of Chilean sailors.

The Peruvian destroyer superiority is part of the rationale behind my order of eight Eyzaguirre-class DDs, the as-yet-unseen Esmeralda-class DDLs, and finally the 1939 Covadonga-class (and Battle-subclass) SCLs. The Eyzaguirres and Esmeraldas, both with 8x5.12" DP, should according to my calculus balance out the Valdez-classes, while the Covadongas/Battles, with 8x6" or 10x5.12", will balance well against the Independencias (if they can catch them, being two knots slower than those ships).

In truth, the Riquelmes should never have been sent into the war zone at all. While I understand, in principle, the theory behind their design, what happened at Ilo was pretty much inevitable the moment the Armada tried to use them in combat. Unlike most torpedo boats, they don't have the speed to outrun danger, and they aren't big enough to be survivable against anything that can catch them. I feel that a single Valdez alone could have stood a serious chance against them, if the Valdez had a commander with severe intestinal fortitude and a crack crew.

I actually had a plan to strip the Riquelmes' 6" mounts off, turn the four ships into fast coastal subchasers/minesweepers, and reuse the guns to arm the equally oddball Capitan Simpson with centerline 6" mounts. Too late for that now.

Heh, as I said, the mismatch has been worked on by Chile since I was running Peru, and the Peruvian navy went further afield with more large ships than I would have purchased (the ex-RSAN BBs would have been about my limit), so there aren't as many DDs (or subs) as I'd have liked. Peru couldn't out-build Chile, but if Chile was distracted, Peru could at least get superiority in one area.