WesWorld

Many thanks.

How did you gain space to turn her aft directors (they can turn now, right?)?

I think her funnel is still too high. Comparing her to OTL british QE/Valiant or other designs her stack should not rise above bridge tower level.

When you meassure the RF on a drawing of OTL Richelieu, what would be there size translated into your drawing?

Ok, more changes. Lowered funnel (again), changed directors (should be right size now modelled on Dunkerque's RF), enlarged after superstructure (again), moved mast, moved catapult, new anchors, some detail changes on the bridge and a new anchor and plimsol lines added.

Thank you, Gentlemen.

I think we´ve a result which I´d like to present here.

Based on all input I put together this template of design studies. The represent all ideas except for Hoods stuff as it was to large to add.



The bottom versions are already pretty close to what I will now use as rebuild for Mauritius. It is very close to Shin last version but with the bow type introduced by Hood and some finetuning as offered by Wes. I added some more finetuning on my part regarding superstructure.

To me the final result is VERY satisfying and would have been impossible without your great work. Thank you a lot.

So here she is, RSAN Mauritius in her post-rebuild outfit.



@Hood: Sadly, while I was working on the final version you posted your latest pic. Overall differences are marginal but there are some smaller things. I´d be very happy if you´d like to once again rework some minor details so I can use your drawing too.

Regarding RSAN Réunion I will also put together a final version soon. It will be very closely related to Shin latest input but with a forward superstructure clsoer to the one he introduced earlier (Imperators bridge plus pole mast and no remains of her original tripod). Stay tuned.

What changes do you need?

Your final design looks very good, I should be able to approximate it but the forward superstructure needs an additional deck over mine and the AA layout is probably better than mine overall. Should not take long to make the changes but I'll wait until you give me all the details you want.

Is the aircraft ok or do you want me change it (make a new one etc)?

What about flags?

Gentlemen,

Here is RSAN Réunion for you as rebuild.

Many thanks again for helping me with her.



@Hood: Will come back to you. Need to carefully check your and mine drawing first. :o/

A bonu$ for Darth Hoo, if he's interested (RSAN South Africa, RSAN Cameroon).

Many thanks for posting.

I like her new forwar superstructure even though I´m not sure her forward FC will be able to track anything further aft than abreast. Why not remove that tripod as on earlier rebuilds (Hertogs, Konings) and place that FC unit on the most upper deck, probably with two small AA FCs left and right forward of it.....?

There always was something wrong with the RSAN South Africa, hence I never finished that drawing. I will comment on that later so you and all others can help me with it (if interested, that is).

EDIT:

First two things that spring to mind when looking at your modifications (besides forward FC as above):

1.) Those cranse amidship will never be able to lift a plane out of the water. They only serve hangar and catapult. So how to get the planes out of the wet?

2.) Such bow form was never used and will never be used on RSAN designs. It is most likely her 1931 rebuild will include a bow as also used for the RSAN Mauritius.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
So how to get the planes out of the wet?

FAERIE MAGIC!!!

I thought this is how the Irish handle their planes but well, if we can install a fairy magic device on one of my units, I´m fine. :oP

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
I like her new forwar superstructure even though I´m not sure her forward FC will be able to track anything further aft than abreast. Why not remove that tripod as on earlier rebuilds (Hertogs, Konings) and place that FC unit on the most upper deck, probably with two small AA FCs left and right forward of it.....?

There always was something wrong with the RSAN South Africa, hence I never finished that drawing. I will comment on that later so you and all others can help me with it (if interested, that is).

I'd be willing to take a shot as well as I seem to be back into drawing on the computer.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
First two things that spring to mind when looking at your modifications (besides forward FC as above):

1.) Those cranse amidship will never be able to lift a plane out of the water. They only serve hangar and catapult. So how to get the planes out of the wet?

The power of the mind!!! Either that or an achient Atlantean sublight engine....

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
2.) Such bow form was never used and will never be used on RSAN designs. It is most likely her 1931 rebuild will include a bow as also used for the RSAN Mauritius.

I have a few ideas about that too.

Feel free to give it a shot. The rebuild version is less of a problem as one can re-design nearly everything above weather deck except barbets. Just work from the SS stats and it´s fine.

The original version is what concerns me most and made me stop working on the drawing. And here is why:

The South Africa was meant to fill the gap between the Mauritius and Mocambique classes which I had drawn earlier. Optically she was to have an enlarged superstructure to allow use as flag ship and should also incooperate some more modern design features like shielded 88mm AA guns and, most important, a secondary battery above weather deck level to allow operational use even in bad weather. And here is where troubles began.

Somehow I couldn´t find a solution that satisfied me. Those 15cm casemats always seemed cramped, too closely spaced but when I used a longer battery deck it also looked #*§("%/. OTL the British solved that on their Hood class by avoiding casemats and using deck mounts for the 14cm battery.

The overall hull form (top view) also wasn´t good enough. She simply looked too fat. But that I fixed in a later version of the drawing which also includes some more details like ventilation trunks, blowers, compass platform, stairs and the like (for whatever reason I used an older version on this board).

Here is the latest version I had on my pc.



Her hull form was modified but her superstructure might still need some rework (i.e. enlarged aft, different platforms forward) to distinct her from the Mauritius and of course the "secondary battery problem" remains unsolved.

Regarding the rebuild version Shins proposal is pretty good but lacks in detail (sorreee). Aft another deck level probably and most important her forward RF needs much better arcs.

The rebuild happened in 32 when the Hertogs and Konings were already modified. Both received completely new forward superstructure without keeping their tripod. Why should RSAN designers try something different now? Okay, the tripod was just kept on the Mauritius but that could have been an experiment. The Reunion doesn´t have that feature after all... On the other hand, if there is a good reason or if it looks right optically, why not keep it? In such case the Mauritius will not remain a white elephant. Anyway, I´d most likely chosed a new bridge structure a bit taller and with her main RF above funnel level to allow better arcs. Would it be possible to raise the RF? Surely. And to keep the tripod? Don´t know, probably wouldn´t even make much sense....

And of course those 4cm templates need to be replaced. Shin used those for the quads. Not his fault of course. Working with somebody´s templates surely is no easything. :o)

So what does the board think? What do you propose?

What about this sort of arrangement for the above decks casemates? It makes lots of superstructure for accommodation.

The idea is not bad, actually. Those 88mm AA guns probably need some replacement as I think at least the most forward once. One could place them with the aft group for example, so it´s three fore and three aft.

Why would you keep the two aftermost 15cm casemats as is? Could their arcs be improved by used that "curved type" as well?

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
The South Africa was meant to fill the gap between the Mauritius and Mocambique classes which I had drawn earlier. Optically she was to have an enlarged superstructure to allow use as flag ship and should also incooperate some more modern design features like shielded 88mm AA guns and, most important, a secondary battery above weather deck level to allow operational use even in bad weather. And here is where troubles began.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Regarding the rebuild version Shins proposal is pretty good but lacks in detail (sorreee). Aft another deck level probably and most important her forward RF needs much better arcs.

The rebuild happened in 32 when the Hertogs and Konings were already modified. Both received completely new forward superstructure without keeping their tripod. Why should RSAN designers try something different now? Okay, the tripod was just kept on the Mauritius but that could have been an experiment. The Reunion doesn´t have that feature after all... On the other hand, if there is a good reason or if it looks right optically, why not keep it? In such case the Mauritius will not remain a white elephant. Anyway, I´d most likely chosed a new bridge structure a bit taller and with her main RF above funnel level to allow better arcs. Would it be possible to raise the RF? Surely. And to keep the tripod? Don´t know, probably wouldn´t even make much sense....

I figured that what you had already posted was what you were looking for with the class as-launched, so all I did was try and flesh it out a bit with scuttles and minor detailing. Beyond that, I didn't see any more detailing to be done (using the other as-launched pre 1920 ships as examples...)

As for the modernized superstructure, I was looking for something between the as-launched superstructure, and what's on the Mauritius. But if that doesn't work for your modernized version, it could be feasible for your as-launched version; all I basically did was extend the wheelhouse forward (it's not any wider) and put a deckhouse under it, on top of the conning tower.

As for the detailing...My artistic 'talents' lie more in the area of editing and kitbashing. So when working with a mostly blank project, I don't have a very good eye for what needs adding, except by comparison to similar (and finished) works. --; I'm also pretty good at adding specific requests, but I guess I'm not imaginative to come up with a lot of stuff on my own. -shrug-

No need for excuses. I think you did a good job. RAs secondary battery layout and your details will most likely lead me to a drawing of South Africa in her original configuration.

For her rebuild layout I also think you gave a good idea. I just think keeping that tripod is not a good idea. Well, and I´d place her secondaries a bit different. Moving her forward battery aft precisely becaue as is these guns seem to interfere with the forward main guns. But those are minor improvements. With a new bow she will most likely be very close to what you proposed.

So please keep it coming if you have more ideas up your sleeves. :o)

Revised the secondary battery and aft superstructure a bit. I'm not sure its quite there yet though. Still missing something.

Based on RA´s idea I finally completed the drawing for the South Africa class.



Thanks again for your help.

Next will be the rebuild version based on that drawing. Some ideas have already been discussed above and Shin-Ra probably wasn´t too far off the mark - his design proposal just looked a bit too US american to me. :o)

The rebuild took place ´32/33 which is about the time the RSAN was building the Triumph, Imperator and Monarch classes. So I would expect the modified South Africa to be some kind of mixture of old and new design features taken from these designs (i.e. bow form, blocky bridge, range finders, A/C facilities amidship).

Anybody out there who will give it a shot?

Cheers and thanks,

HoOmAn

Basically the previous submission altered to fit the new as-built schematic, and with An Atlantic Bow
(grabbed the wrong template; future revision will have the preferred cruiser stem, as on Mauritus).

Previous issues can be addressed; forward secondary battery slid further aft, heavier aircraft cranes.
Tripod can be removed, but I have to say I really like the look it gives, and as previously stated, the bridge is not substantially modified, just lengthened forward.


I assumed the same lengthening as done for the Mauritus for simplicity's sake, but didn't yet adjust the top view for the new bow;
I'm not good at adjusting the curvature, and only want to muck with it once.

Stem fixed, Cranes updated, secondaries slid aft, plus minor fixes and tweaks.