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Sunday, April 19th 2009, 2:52pm

With 'bold' being 'bold', it could be some exit for Atlantean frogmen.


Sunday, April 19th 2009, 3:14pm

Ahhh, I know what 'Bold' is, it just came to me! ;)

Argentina in 1938 is going to make a slightly bigger P Class from German plans and Brazil could buy these plans from us. I haven't got an SS file yet but I think its a "cut 'n' weld" type job with some extra range. Maybe new diesels too.


Sunday, April 19th 2009, 9:54pm

Well, "Bold" is all I'm willing to devulge!


Monday, April 20th 2009, 3:04pm

Would this submarine suit Brazil? It's a modified Type P from Germany but with a wider hull, new diesels and slightly longer and much more range.

It's expensive but fits on a Type 0 nicely. Argentina is likely to build one next year as a trials type.

Project 704, Argentina Submarine laid down 1938

1,328 t light; 1,361 t standard; 1,476 t normal; 1,568 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
229.66 ft / 229.66 ft x 26.25 ft x 15.58 ft (normal load)
70.00 m / 70.00 m x 8.00 m x 4.75 m

1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1933 Model
Quick firing gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft
1 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
Weight of broadside 33 lbs / 15 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 2,500 shp / 1,865 Kw = 16.05 kts
Range 7,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 207 tons

118 - 154

£0.336 million / $1.345 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 68 tons, 4.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,006 tons, 68.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 148 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 16.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,285 lbs / 583 Kg = 42.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.0 %
Waterplane Area: 4,207 Square feet or 391 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 351 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 808 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 4.78
- Longitudinal: 2.66
- Overall: 3.08
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Torpedo Tubes: 4 forward, 2 aft. 8 reload torpedoes forward, 2 aft
Operational diving depth: 308 feet
Emergency diving depth: 492 feet
Crush depth: 770 feet


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Monday, April 27th 2009, 11:59pm

The SAE is offering

8x Cat-class torpedo boat for 550ts/unit or 4000ts total

8x Hound-class torpedo boat (class of 1921) for 350ts/unit or 2500ts total

in 1937/38.

Note that the Cats have all received a 50% rebuild/refit in 1926-28.

Note that RSAN Terrier of the TB21-class will not be sold. She was badly damaged by an explosion in December 35 and was declared constructive loss although the was brought to harbour (status 55% and decomissioned but still around in 1937).

See the SAE encyclopedia for more technical information.

If you are interested feel free to contact your local SAE weapon dealer on the detailled status of the individual ships (all between 95% - 100%). In general the Cats saw much less combat action and thus they suffered less.


Tuesday, April 28th 2009, 2:34am

Mexico is interested in the Hound class. However, the price is quite high for ships that saw heavy action and have not been reffited. Would the SAE consider a price of 200t (25t more than scrap rate)per ship?


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Tuesday, April 28th 2009, 8:14am

Sprry, but 200ts/units is too low. The class saw extensive action but none is in disrepair. For example, the Borzoi was completely repaired in Q1/36 and ran trials through Q2/36. With the war ending in March the ship saw no action post-repair and is in perfect condition.

[273ts spend on Borzoi which is much more than necessary even for a major refit. Our repair rules force us to spend a really high amount for repairs so I rate ships that were repaired to such extend also refitted even when their specs were not changed.]


Tuesday, April 28th 2009, 8:28am

...I might be willing to pay asking price for all sixteen offered ships. Give me a bit to query my schedule...


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Tuesday, April 28th 2009, 7:52pm

In 1937/38 the RSAN will also make some cruisers available to the market.

RSAN Kimberley and RSAN Welkom were extensively rebuild in 1924. They saw no combat action but were used for extended patrol and escort duties. Kimberley is at 99% and Welkom at 97% respectively. Price tag is at 2000 tons each.

Four out of six units of the Port Shepstone class survived the war. Operating from Douala they saw extensive wartime service but with the exception of Port Alfred (machinery breakdown in March - 84%) they are in nearly good condition (99%). Price tag is at 2500 tons each.

Probably some pirates are interested? ;o)


Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 12:55am

How about 250t/unit for the 4 in worse shape?

Peru might be interested in the first 2 cruisers seeing as they have their sisters. Australia is interested in the Port Shepstones if only to keep them of the market. If no other country makes a bid, Australia will offer 9,000t for the 4.


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Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 7:34am

All eight torpedo boats are sold and no longer on the market, sorry Foxy.

Peru "might" be interested?

Australias bid is noted.

[Btw, earlier in this thread I put the Konings on the market. This also is no longer true. Both remaining units have found a new home...]


Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 1:11pm

Whoa! SAE firesale. Seems they are doing all right indeed. Eight torpedo boats and two battleships sold. I can see either the Dutch or one of the minor FAR/AANM countries making a run for the Konings. I was going to make a run but too pricey for my taste.


Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 2:17pm

Perhaps China bought them?


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Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 4:21pm

For those currently planning their budget for light crafts and escorts: Starting in 1938 there will be 6 slightly used light destroyers of the Pleiades class available. All units were laid down ´23/24 and need some maintenance but are otherwise in fighting order (various states 95%-100%). This includes the RSAN Elektra wich hit a wreck post-war and needed some extensive repairs. She´ll be in perfect trim most likely (given our rules and the massiv investment necessary to repair even minor damage). Price tag is at 300tons/unit.


Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 6:31pm

Nordmark has the entire 22 class destroyer class up for sale.


Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 7:27pm

Mexico's already bough 18 destroyers in the last year, but one can not have too many destroyers. Mexico does a counter offer of 200t/unit for the SAE ships. While offering 250t/unit for the Nordish ones.


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Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 7:53pm

The offer is noted, thanks.

Foxy, you´ve made some comments on the cruisers but I´m not sure how I should Peru´s "might be interested"....


Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 8:44pm

Peru bought the two sister ships and lacks light cruisers. The only problem is that Peru doesn't have a player right now, with Thantalas gone again. Maybe th mods could make an offer.


Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 8:47pm

I'd agree with DFox: if I were still running Peru, I'd be looking very hard at those SAE light cruisers.


Wednesday, April 29th 2009, 9:05pm

As far as I'm concerned, CG is running Peru with Tanthalas gone again. However, I believe Peru doesn't have the ability right now to pay, seeing as they're trying to finish the Villar and getting CLs and DDs from India. I'll look back over their reports and run some numbers just to double-check.